QuoteSo you don't like his celebrated poems... They may be indicative of a victim complex - whether his perception is valid or deluded is another argument - but do they really constitute bigotry?Originally Posted by Gather round
So if Willie Hay was photographed at a protest near a banner proclaiming ulster to be british, would that be ironic?
So you don't like his celebrated poems... They may be indicative of a victim complex - whether his perception is valid or deluded is another argument - but do they really constitute bigotry?
Mark Devenport on Twitter: https://twitter.com/markdevenport/st...57935017226240
Stephen Dempster on Twitter: https://twitter.com/dempster7/status/29885723250066636957% interviewees for tonight's BBC Spotlight survey say there should be border poll within next 7 years
What could that mean? I don't think a result in favour of maintaining the union with Britain would raise eyebrows - that being the status quo - so is it suggestive of a surprising majority polling in favour of unity or simply promotional hype?The really interesting part of tonight's BBC1 NI Spotlight will be how people would vote in a Border Poll - the figures will raise eyebrows!
I think the programme is on BBC One NI at 10:35, although won't be able to view it myself over here, unfortunately.
I'd guess it means more people would vote for unity than expected but it would still be in favour of the status quo.
Was just gonna go to bed early til I saw this. Rats.
DID YOU NOTICE A SIGN OUTSIDE MY HOUSE...?
I wasn't making a statement; I was posing questions which did carry inferences but I'm not making a definitive statement, far be it from me to be able to do so. I wasn't stating that McClean playing for NI means he isn't a nationalist (as Gather Round decided to interpret my post). I was asserting some interpretation of the word 'nationalist' on the actual event of McClean lining out for NI. Of course McGinn is most likely to identify as nationalist, that's a well-known fact. I'm just pointing out a conflict that exists in these situations in terms of the literal meaning of the word 'nationalist' and the act of playing for NI.
Haven't really up read on this, would people in the Republic have the opportunity to vote and do we really want unity considering the obvious issues it raises? Happy to take their players, but personally I don't want the associated issues that would come with any degree of unity.
Aye, I think so. But relax, I'm not suggesting he's a paramilitary or anything.So you don't like his celebrated poems... They may be indicative of a victim complex - whether his perception is valid or deluded is another argument - but do they really constitute bigotry?
Looks like they want unity that is the status quo
NI to remain part of the UK- 65%
NI to be joined with the Irish Republic- 17%
Wouldn't vote- 12%
Don't Know- 7%
Source: MORI/ BBC
No. Enda and Mehole will be relieved
As I've mentioned, for 90 years all your Governments and a large proportion of wider proportion haven't wanted it, whatever they said publicly or in the Constitution.
Remind us if you would? Ta.I don't want the associated issues that would come with any degree of unity
Last edited by Gather round; 06/02/2013 at 7:52 AM.
Last night's 'Spotlight' programme is now on the BBC iPlayer for those who can view it: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...ht_05_02_2013/
Haven't seen it yet myself, but 65 per cent of those surveyed in their poll would support maintaining the union with Britain, whilst 17 per cent would support Irish unity. Full details of the poll are available on page 16 of this document: http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/tv/spotlight/survey.pdf
(Edit: Sorry, the table doesn't appear to display correctly and looks a bit disorganised. I think it's dependent on screen resolution.)Code:Q.3 If there was a referendum tomorrow would you vote for...? Base : All Adults 18+ SOCIAL GENDER SOCIAL CLASS (4) NATIONALIST X SOCIAL CLASS (4) UNIONIST X SOCIAL CLASS (4) CLASS (2) -------------- ------------------------------- ------------------------------- ------------------------------- --------------- Total Male Female AB C1 C2 DE AB C1 C2 DE AB C1 C2 DE ABC1 C2DE Significance Level: 95% a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p Significance Level: 99% A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P UNWEIGHTED 1046 514 532 195 261 174 415 58 71 49 122 58 106 81 138 456 589 WEIGHTED 1046 513 533 194 259 173 419 63 78 54 134 53 98 75 128 453 592 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% Northern Ireland to remain 683 327 357 131 176 113 263 **29 **36 **15 **46 **48 **93 **70 **122 307 375 part of the United Kingdom 65% 64% 67% 68% 68% 65% 63% 45% 46% 28% 34% 90% 94% 94% 95% 68% 63% Northern Ireland to be joined 180 **114 **65 33 36 32 78 **25 **24 **24 **56 **2 **3 **3 **0 70 110 with the Republic of Ireland 17% 22% 12% 17% 14% 19% 19% 40% 31% 45% 42% 3% 3% 4% - 15% 19% outside of the United Kingdom B n n n Would not vote 127 *50 *77 25 32 20 51 10 8 11 23 *2 **1 **2 **5 57 71 12% 10% 15% 13% 12% 12% 12% 16% 10% 21% 17% 3% 1% 2% 4% 13% 12% a Don't know 56 22 34 *5 15 8 28 0 **10 3 9 2 2 *0 *2 20 36 5% 4% 6% 2% 6% 4% 7% - 13% 6% 7% 3% 2% - 1% 4% 6% c G g Columns Tested: A,B - C,D,E,F - G,H,I,J - K,L,M,N - O,P
Sinn Féin have called for a border poll in the north - which has resulted in mild ridicule from certain quarters - but I'd assume the electorate south of the border would also have to be consulted on the prospect of Irish unity via a separate referendum if one went ahead in the north and saw a majority voting in favour of Irish unity.
According to the Ipsos MRBI 50th anniversary poll, a substantial majority (64 per cent) of people south of the border would support unity with "69 per cent of [that majority, I think] say[ing] they would still favour a united Ireland even if they had to pay more in taxation to support it": http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...327144275.html
Take whose players? The FAI facilitate eligible Irish nationals who are willing and good enough to play for us. We don't "take" anyone's players.Happy to take their players, but personally I don't want the associated issues that would come with any degree of unity.
Which "associated issues" would trouble you?
Last edited by DannyInvincible; 06/02/2013 at 8:30 AM.
In what way does it constitute bigotry exactly?
I'm not disputing the figures in that a significant majority of those polled clearly support maintaining the union with Britian, but the phrasing, "NI to be joined with the Irish Republic", might imply that NI was to be subsumed into the already-existing state south of the border. Maybe, maybe not... But perhaps people would look at the notion differently if the idea of a completely new, revamped united Irish state was proposed?Looks like they want unity that is the status quo
NI to remain part of the UK- 65%
NI to be joined with the Irish Republic- 17%
Last edited by DannyInvincible; 06/02/2013 at 8:31 AM.
Thje phrasing of the questions and the obvious bias in its reporting made the whole experience a mockery. I was ashamed by that programme last night.
That they used phraseology last used in the 70s in the setting of the survey shows the fear that was there within the BBC that there may have been a different result.
I'm still so angry at Noel Thompson for ignoring the obvious bigotry of the bumpkin Foster last night. And as for the UUP, An Fear O Cinneide really is on cloud cuckoo land. They are screwed no matter how much of a mess the Super Dupers make of the flag issue.
DID YOU NOTICE A SIGN OUTSIDE MY HOUSE...?
The BBC survey merely confirmed what we knew already - as evidenced by recent "Life & Times" surveys, which I have never heard anyone challenge as being biased.
The truth of the matter is that there isn't going to be a "United" Ireland anytime soon.
Now, When PSF have something constructive to "sell" on that front, I'll listen carefully to what they have to say - until then, their bland rhetoric and fantasy island nonsense doesn't cut the mustard.
In what way did you think Foster was "bigoted" last night?
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
After PSF have drafted such proposals - I don't think they have even started yet - they'll be worth appropriate consideration.
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
Come on?
She spent the entire show on the defensive and kept on belittling the notions of Irishness and Irish Nationalism within this "shared" society she keeps bleating about through the other side of her mouth. It's unfortunte for her she is from Fermanagh, you'd think being surrounded by a majority Nationalist population she would be slightly more considerate and understanding of those notions.
I mean when you have to shout down Alex Attwood you really have to reconsider what you're actually arguing about.
DID YOU NOTICE A SIGN OUTSIDE MY HOUSE...?
Can you relate a specific example of Foster's bigotry last night?
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
Right now, no. But once I have reviewed it again later on iplayer I will, with times and everything. Can't get better than that.
And if you're gonna split hairs on this... should I bother?
DID YOU NOTICE A SIGN OUTSIDE MY HOUSE...?
Look forward to discussing that with you - I certainly didn't sense "bigotry" from her, but will be happy to change that opinion, once the offending comments are confirmed.
She run rings around Alex Maskey debating a Border Poll on the BBC a week or so ago - rarely does a Shinner get so bashed up as Maskey did on that occassion.
I'm not a fan of the DUP generally, but I believe Foster to be a capable politician.
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
She's capable. But she comes across as a total and utter contemptable a lot of the times. She's mealy mouthed in relation to Nationalism and it seems that she gets caught of guard in regard to it a lot and starts talking in tongues.
I missed the discussion with Maskey. Though he's a twallop. Got a link?
DID YOU NOTICE A SIGN OUTSIDE MY HOUSE...?
It was on the Nolan Show on 23rd January - not sure if it's on BBC NI I Player?
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
I'll find it. Cheers.
DID YOU NOTICE A SIGN OUTSIDE MY HOUSE...?
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