QuoteHow is O'Brien a mercenary? I've never heard any utterances from him about England. As far as I can see, he always plays for the shirt. So what's your problem with him then?Originally Posted by 1MickCollins
PP
Stack isn't in the squad yet, but both his parents are Irish-born which makes a significant differnce. I really don't know about Connolly, and O'Brien is a mercenary if you ask me, even though he said no to England at U21 level. I wouldn't question the Doc as he was born in Donegal as far as I know and moved to Luton early on. I think Delap is out of the picture now anyhow.
No you really can't be surprised if any player who represents Ireland at youth level and who never considered themselves Irish until contacted by the FAI should decide to answer England's call at a later time, I think it will happen more and more going forward due to the recent rule change.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Nationalism is an infantile disease, the measles of mankind
How is O'Brien a mercenary? I've never heard any utterances from him about England. As far as I can see, he always plays for the shirt. So what's your problem with him then?
Semper in faecibus sole profundum variat
delap is no mercanery.both his parents are irish. andy o`brien played for england under 21s in a friendly and then changed his allegiance later
Ahh. I'm not sure "mercenary" is the term for what he did in changing allegiance though. Maybe he just saw the light.
He's worth his place though.
PP
Last edited by Plastic Paddy; 20/09/2004 at 8:31 AM.
Semper in faecibus sole profundum variat
O'Brien was 19 when he played for the England U21's against France and got MOM. If he considered himself English he would be a fool to go and play for Ireland as he showed early potential that he could be as good as any centre half.
People approach him now and wonder, what with his upwardly mobile status, if he regrets the decision. "I say no. It wasn't really close. I only played against France because it was a friendly and there was pressure from the club's point of view because they think it's more prestigious to play for England than for Ireland." He has no doubts. He travelled to Kilfinnane with his father last summer and the experience overwhelmed him. "Just picking up a few pieces of my past," he said.
Dan - Any news on Best?
This has always been a dodgy area. You have someone like John Aldridge or Ray Houghton or Andy Townsend, whose Irish connections weren't half as strong as Kilbane's or Breen's, both of whom were brought up in Irish households, e.g. Kilbane was an altar boy, played hurling, Breen went to the All-Ireland with his da every year. These players get an offer of international football and take it. But who would deny that, by the end of it, John Aldridge wasn't as committed to the Irish cause as Steve Staunton or Packie Bonner? It's a lot better today, with fewer mercenaries doing the rounds. But I can't look at someone like Jonathan Macken or Clinton Morrison and genuinely feel that they would have turned England down, as Breen or Kilbane both did as youths. While the notion of mercenary footballers, Noel Whelan, Kevin Gallen, etc, sickens me, I was brought up supporting a team that played its heart out and thrilled a nation and spoke on tv afterwards with English or Scottish accents. Many of these players weren't Irish-born but became devoted to the team. I think it depends on the character of the player, to an extent. McAteer, while ropey, was immediately accepted by the faithful as his commitment was never in doubt. Like I said, a dodgy area.
I find it hard to believe that any 16-19 year footballer is so cynical and realistic about their own ability that they think they'll never be good enough to play for their country despite playing for a Premiership club. If Leon Best thinks he can play for England i wish him well and prefer he wasn't part of our set up. No one can accuse the likes of O'Brien, Potter, Connolly, etc of doing this as they all declared for us as very highly rated youngsters and we all know Connolly doesn't lack self confidence.
Yep. I've uploaded a scan of the programme from yesterday at http://www.kerins.eclipse.co.uk/leonbest.jpg (or a better quality one at www.kerins.eclipse.co.uk/leonbest2.jpg)I've highlighted the bit about his international career. It's only a paragraph, but it says enough. As I say, it looks like he's hedging his bets at the moment.
I was at the Saints/Toon game yesterday. He came on in the 80th, looked strong and mobile, but was sometimes a bit apprehensive about making the run, losing him half a yard against the defender, but all in all a good solid debut.
Also, Delap looked much better than he has done of late. Was making more attacking runs, which had been part of his game which had mysteriously vanished. Rory is getting back his 'bite' too, as he sometimes has a tendancy to not go in fully committed into a challenge - probably something to do with all the injuries he's had in the last 18 months, but I'm glad to say he's moving in the right direction.
Carr looked good for Newcastle, scoring with a cracking shot. Given had sod all to do, and O'Brien looked solid too.
My other posts are intelligent and witty. This one is an exception.
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Playstation Network: DanK_SFC
This is indeed a strange one, I don't remember this happening before where a youngster has put in the work at youth level and then changed his mind. Like with McGeady, it's unusual for a youngster to want to play for a country for purely cynical reasons. Then again, I don't remember being too sensible when I was 19.
Think the English goalie at the under-20 youth championships last year had caps for Ireland at a younger level, but I'm not sure. That's the only one I can think of off the top of my head
Other than he played for England and then decided maybe he could earn 100 caps for Ireland but have absolutley no guarantees for England ?How is O'Brien a mercenary? I've never heard any utterances from him about England. As far as I can see, he always plays for the shirt. So what's your problem with him then?
I stick to saying that playing for Ireland is a career move for most but not all our English players. No one knows what is in someone else's heart. I named Breen and Kilbane as lads I don't have a problem with at all. I just don't know about the upgringing of the others to be sure. I don't want to slam anyone so am completely open-minded to new information.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Nationalism is an infantile disease, the measles of mankind
I heard a couple of years ago that Milner of Leeds, now with Newcastle played for Ireland at under-15 level. Is this true?
"Love many, trust few, always paddle your own canoe." Dillo
So its still not 100% clear what he's doing. His father is Jamaican and his mother is Irish. The way he speaks of his mother, "I owe her so much, she has been a massive influence" he could well be persuaded to stay with us.
Just found an obscure link, click and scroll down a bit. Obviously very old, though.
http://www.horsforth.leeds.sch.uk/ne...c00/sports.asp
That clears that one up. Bad enough losing the likes of Rooney. We need to hold onto Leon Best if we can. Players can't be forced to be Irish however.
"Love many, trust few, always paddle your own canoe." Dillo
We could kidnap him. It worked for St. Patrick.
Although I'm not too sure what he was like upfront.
My other posts are intelligent and witty. This one is an exception.
www.kerins.org
Playstation Network: DanK_SFC
Watching an old thing there on video about Ronnie Whelan. He describes all the new faces that Charlton brought into the squad and how a lot of people at the time said that they weren't Irish, they were English or Scottish. "When they went out there, they were Irish," was his explanation. Tis indeed a grey area, which depends on the individual player and his attitude towards his inclusion in the squad.
whoever has made bad comments about leon best doesn't know what they are talking about. I went to school with the lad was good mates with him and played in the same saturday side as him before he went to notts county. His mother is from Dublin and all he has wanted to do from a young age is represent Ireland. where is this definate proof that he wants to play for england...i don't think so
and by the way, he will be the next 'big thing'. i can remember his debut for my saturday side, aged about 9 . he picked the ball up on the half way line, shot and scored, at the time the other players couldn't even kick the ball that far. he is strong powerful and has a good shot, all key attributes of a striker.
Alright dere people I am new to the board - interesting debate about this lad best - I hope he declares for Ireland seems like he could be a good addition to an already promising U21 squad. Found this info about him.
Thursday 07 October 2004
Still a learner but Saints hopes are pinned on Best
Leon Best is counting down the days to the biggest game of his life - with Saints praying he makes an instant impact to get them out of their current predicament.
The 18-year-old striking sensation looks almost certain to be handed a place alongside Kevin Phillips when Saints take on Everton at Goodison Park a week on Saturday.
If he does, it will be his first ever Premiership start and will thrust him firmly into the national footballing spotlight as Saints look to climb out of the bottom three.
Best has so far shown little in the way of shyness with two confident and bustling appearances from the substitutes bench this season - the first being against Newcastle on the day of his 18th birthday.
And now he will have his chance to become a first-team regular.
Saints nabbed the young talent for £50,000 from Notts County in March 2003 and ever since he has made an impact both for the under-19s and the reserves. Two goals against West Ham's second string at St Mary's this week underlined his potential and took his tally for the season to seven goals in four reserve games.
Best looks set to get his chance with James Beattie's broken toe and Peter Crouch's knee injury keeping them out for six weeks while Brett Ormerod will return after his month's loan at Leeds but FA rules mean he cannot come back before that period has elapsed - the week after the Everton game.
That leaves Phillips as the only fit frontline striker and Best's elevation may prove the defining moment in a fledgling career if the Republic of Ireland youth international can grab the opportunity with both hands.
A quick, strong front player!!!!! - er we are not exactly blessed with this type of forward.... if the lad declares for Ireland I couldn't care less where he was born...
Bring on the french.
http://www.eleven-a-side.com/acrosst...p?newsid=14130
eleven-a-side.com are still referring to Best as Irish: "Irish under-19 international Leon Best made his first Premiership start for Southampton against third-placed Everton at Goodison Park, but the injury-hit Saints fell to Leon Osman’s last minute winner. "
But he wasn't named in McCaffrey's latest squad. I'm guessing he has left the fold...or was he not included due to club commitments, hah!
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Nationalism is an infantile disease, the measles of mankind
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