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Thread: Richard Keogh

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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin View Post
    You're a bit confused here. Whom is never the right word to use here.

    Peter falls: John kicked Peter in the head, who fell to the ground
    John falls: John kicked Peter in the head and fell to the ground.

    The placement of the pronoun isn't the problem here, it's the fact that both object and subject take the same pronoun. Usually, they're not the same, so you get:

    John kicked the box and it fell to the ground
    or
    John kicked the box and he fell to the ground

    So it's pretty clear in both instances what happened.


    Clearly overrated.
    Pearce is one of Reading's most highly rated players. Duffy is one of Yeovil's most highly rated players. Delaney is one of Crystal Palace's most highly rated players. Dunne, O'Shea, Clark and Wilson speak for themselves. What I say about Keogh is not a slight on him. It is an indication of the depth we have in defence. Is he genuinely going to get ahead of any of those players in the pecking order?

    I haven't even mentioned St Ledger, McShane and O'Dea. The latter two get some savage abuse but they have both been solid for Ireland whenever they have played. Easy to overlook that O'Dea played in Moscow too.

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    International Prospect DeLorean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks View Post
    I think that guy was being sarcastic about Keogh being a future Man Utd and England player.

    Damien Delaney should be LCB and one of O'Shea, Dunne or Clark should partner him in the next campaign.

    Keogh is an option. So is Pearce who is equally highly rated at Reading. We shouldn't forget St Ledger, who is proven at this level of football. Next year is make or break for him and also Shane Duffy. Marc Wilson, Paul McShane and Darren O'Dea too are naturally options.

    When we have so many options at the back, I don't see the need to put in an unproven 28 year old centre-back.
    Nobody is saying Keogh should start. Nobody is even saying he should be in the squad.

    It is clear that your 'first hand' evaluation of Derby being where there are "in spite of Keogh and not because of him" was complete rubbish.

    Damien Delaney is also unproven at international level (even allowing for a couple of good months in the PL) and he is four years old than Keogh.

    You have said that Keogh is a decent option... you have also said that he isn't capable of the step up to international football. Which is it?


    *Edit- Delaney actually turns 33 before Keogh turns 28.
    Last edited by DeLorean; 11/02/2014 at 3:51 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeLorean View Post
    Nobody is saying Keogh should start. Nobody is even saying he should be in the squad.

    It is clear that your 'first hand' evaluation of Derby being when there are "in spite of Keogh and not because of him" was complete rubbish.

    Damien Delaney is also unproven at international level (even allowing for a couple of good months in the PL) and he is four years old than Keogh.

    You have said that Keogh is a decent option... you have also said that he isn't capable of the step up to international football. Which is it?


    *Edit- Delaney actually turns 33 before Keogh turns 28.
    We should be selecting the best performing players for the upcoming campaign, which includes players like Damien Delaney and Andy Reid. Delaney is more proven than Keogh. He has played virtually his entire career in the second tier, has played for Ireland, intermittently I admit, since 2008 and has stepped up to the PL. If we take his age into account then we must do same with O'Shea, Dunne, Reid, Hoolahan and Keane.

    I have seen Keogh first hand, admittedly not this season.

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    International Prospect DeLorean's Avatar
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    You're the one who brought age into it, feeling the need to point out that Keogh is 28 (aging the poor guy seven months I may add).

    I see you only dealt with the points that suited you yet again, really discredits your contributions overall if you don't mind me saying.
    Last edited by DeLorean; 11/02/2014 at 3:09 PM.

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    Is Keogh on the callup ......# list yet?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks View Post
    I have seen Keogh first hand, admittedly not this season.
    But isn't it this seasons showing from him dictates this discussion re; Ireland, the origin and very nature of it ?

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    Banned. Children Banned. Grandchildren Banned. 3 Months. Charlie Darwin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks View Post
    Pearce is one of Reading's most highly rated players. Duffy is one of Yeovil's most highly rated players. Delaney is one of Crystal Palace's most highly rated players. Dunne, O'Shea, Clark and Wilson speak for themselves. What I say about Keogh is not a slight on him. It is an indication of the depth we have in defence. Is he genuinely going to get ahead of any of those players in the pecking order?

    I haven't even mentioned St Ledger, McShane and O'Dea. The latter two get some savage abuse but they have both been solid for Ireland whenever they have played. Easy to overlook that O'Dea played in Moscow too.
    I don't really see why not. We have a glut of centre halves who would all be of a similar standard, have similar playing backgrounds and similar potential. Duffy and Pearce may turn out to be better than that group, but we don't know.

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    I suppose it's not a slight on a player to express an opinion about his abilities, one who is vying (with such ugly fervour) for a place in the squad.
    "Too clumsy, rash in the tackle and lacks dominance. Has always played for teams that have leaked loads of goals. Derby are where they are in spite of and not because of him"





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    Quote Originally Posted by geysir View Post
    I suppose it's not a slight on a player to express an opinion about his abilities, one who is vying (with such ugly fervour) for a place in the squad.
    "Too clumsy, rash in the tackle and lacks dominance. Has always played for teams that have leaked loads of goals. Derby are where they are in spite of and not because of him"

    The leaking goals thing may be true but the also score a lot of goals, most in the league. The key thing is do they leak more goals than they score?

    It may be that with a good defence they are able to attack more and hence concede more, if that makes any sense

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    Why does everyone have a boner for Pearse? He's yet another who seems decent, but no more at this stage. I haven't seen much of him tbh but I saw him live against Oman. He had a bit of Gary Doherty about him I thought.

    I think Dunne and O'Shea are our best two CBs, with SSL a very reliable third choice. Delaney strikes me as a good backs to the wall defender but lacks finesse, and I'd say Keogh is in that mould too. It's hard to tell whether either is better than McShane. O'Dea has got too much flak but I'd say he's out of it at this stage. I've never seen him dominate any situation like Keogh did last night.

    Clark is the one I probably have highest hopes for. He just needs to cut out the carelessness he seems prone to. I'd like more time to make a judgment on Wilson as a CB but I suspect he's marginally ahead of Delaney, McShane and Keogh. Duffy has time on his side.

    We have a lot of CB options but most carry some risk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by geysir View Post
    I suppose it's not a slight on a player to express an opinion about his abilities, one who is vying (with such ugly fervour) for a place in the squad.
    "Too clumsy, rash in the tackle and lacks dominance. Has always played for teams that have leaked loads of goals. Derby are where they are in spite of and not because of him"




    Ah there you go again, being catty. He played for a Carlisle team that leaked goals and a pitiable Coventry team that got relegated from The Championship. He was weak in defence last season for Derby. He has improved this season, like several of their players, benefiting from playing under Shteve McClaren.

    In bold - my opinion and I stand by it.
    From what I seen at Pride Park a couple of times and even watching The Football League Show, again this is admittedly last season.

    I understand I went too far with the clamouring for a call up fervour but he is more proactive than anyone else when talking about Ireland. Admittedly, this may be because he is captain but I just find it peculiar for someone who is a bit down the pecking order.

    @ DeLorean

    I meant he would be 28 by the start of the next campaign. Delaney already has International experience and, vitally, PL experience plus there is the whole form thing. I can't overestimate how impressive he has been this season. He may be lacking finesse but hey, even O'Shea and Dunne lack finesse at the best of times. Marc Wilson is supposed to be elegant and he has even looked raw at points this season.

    I think Keogh should be looked at if Derby get promoted because of the aforementioned depth.

    LB, midfield and the Keane conundrum are more pressing issues/what I think O'Neill should be mulling over rather than making radical changes where un-necessary.

    By the by... http://www.herald.ie/sport/soccer/ke...-29999663.html I know ye don't respect Mr. Hyland's opinion but he thinks Keogh is being groomed for a CB spot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks View Post
    Ah there you go again, being catty. He played for a Carlisle team that leaked goals and a pitiable Coventry team that got relegated from The Championship. He was weak in defence last season for Derby. He has improved this season, like several of their players, benefiting from playing under Shteve McClaren.

    In bold - my opinion and I stand by it.
    From what I seen at Pride Park a couple of times and even watching The Football League Show, again this is admittedly last season.

    I understand I went too far with the clamouring for a call up fervour but he is more proactive than anyone else when talking about Ireland. Admittedly, this may be because he is captain but I just find it peculiar for someone who is a bit down the pecking order.
    I would not want to slight Keogh but "he played for a Carlisle team that leaked goals"

    Player of the year for his last season at Carlisle.

    I wouldn't want to slight Keogh but he played "for a pitiable Coventry team that got relegated from The Championship"

    Player of the year for his 2 seasons there Earned a big money transfer to Derby

    I wouldn't want to slight Keogh but "He was weak in defence last season for Derby."

    Player of the year. Players' player of the year. Supporters' player of the year

    Of course, stand by your opinion, I wouldn't want to slight it, but......

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    Quote Originally Posted by geysir View Post
    I would not want to slight Keogh but "he played for a Carlisle team that leaked goals"

    Player of the year for his last season at Carlisle.

    I wouldn't want to slight Keogh but he played "for a pitiable Coventry team that got relegated from The Championship"

    Player of the year for his 2 seasons there Earned a big money transfer to Derby

    I wouldn't want to slight Keogh but "He was weak in defence last season for Derby."

    Player of the year. Players' player of the year. Supporters' player of the year

    Of course, stand by your opinion, I wouldn't want to slight it, but......
    Not sure why these accolades need to be brought up again but there is a long way from playing in League One for Carlisle and getting relegated with Coventry to playing International football, regardless of how he's played over the last few months.

    He may be having a stormer for Derby but he was very shaky last season and I worry if he plays for Ireland competitively. Just my opinion. Shoot me.

    And @ DeLorean I bummed tickets to Pride when my sister was working in that neck of the woods.

    My opinion on Keogh may rankle but it's no more ridiculous than some of what I've read about players like McShane and Sammon in the past. Then again, I go overboard on Whelan, Andrews, Walters and Cox.

    Let's not deny it. I'm not the only one that goes in two-legged on certain players.

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    He seems to have been player of the year every year for every club he has every played for,
    which is quite an achievement and he has just got man of the match in his last game
    in a side pushing for promotion.

    Therefore if he is indeed " clumsy, rash in the tackle and lacks dominance.", then
    he must possess some other talents which are quite remarkable!!!

    Maybe he performs miracles?

    Walking to games down the Derwent perhaps?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks View Post
    Not sure why these accolades need to be brought up again but there is a long way from playing in League One for Carlisle and getting relegated with Coventry to playing International football, regardless of how he's played over the last few months.
    This line of argument sums you up. There is nobody drawing a line between his performances for Carlisle and his potential performances for us. You said he played in a Carlisle side that shipped a lot of goals, clearly implying Keogh must have been at least partially responsible. When it's put to you that he seems to have been Carlisle's best player, you just respond with the 'that doesn't mean he's good enough for international football' argument. Obviously that's true, but you're the one that tried to use his Carlisle record against him, of course you're going to get a counter argument when he won their player of the season award and got a transfer to a bigger side.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks View Post
    He may be having a stormer for Derby but he was very shaky last season and I worry if he plays for Ireland competitively. Just my opinion. Shoot me.
    Nobody has an issue with you not rating him, you are more than entitled to your opinion. I agree that Derby are shipping less goals because of McClaren, I don't agree that Keogh was the liability you think he was. Derby under Clough weren't nearly as defensively organised as they are now and without Keogh, I would think that they would have shipped even more goals than they did. Obviously he wasn't infallible, but it was a defence under constant pressure through a lack of protection from those in front of them. McClaren has certainly given him a platform to defend better.

    You have already gone from saying that Keogh isn't capable of the step up to international football... to saying he's a decent option... to saying he deserves a chance if Derby get promoted. Already that's a fairly dramatic change in a couple of weeks and no less than anybody on here was campaigning for in the first place (bar the 'if they get promoted bit' maybe, Sledge has proved that may not be essential).

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks View Post
    And @ DeLorean I bummed tickets to Pride when my sister was working in that neck of the woods.
    Fair enough.

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    Another dominating performance last night by all accounts in a massive win for Derby. Automatic promotion is starting to look very achievable. Apparently Sheffield Wednesday dominated the game for large spells.

    “We’ve kept two clean sheets in a row and that’s brilliant - the defending was impeccable.” - Steve McClaren

    "I think it was all about focus and concentration. [Jake] Buxton and [Richard] Keogh were magnificent with their heading and I think that gave us the belief. We knew that if they remained focused at the back then we would get our chance. As long as we are solid at the back, it gives us a platform to build on and we have got the skill and quality in the forward positions to nick a goal.” - Patrick Bamford

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    Unfortunately good European international teams don't pump high balls into the box all night long. I'd have every confidence in him if they did, but it's on the ground where the likes of he and Delaney are probably most vulnerable. Great to hear he's playing well though. You can only deal with what you're presented.

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    Yeah I suppose it's just a case of getting TOWK's famous pecking order into play really. We were fairly blessed with St. Ledger's adaptability regardless of his club form/situation. I don't see any reason why the likes of Keogh couldn't provide something similar. He is reasonably comfortable on the ball from what I have seen and tidy in possession. I accept international football is a different level but it's a good starting point.

    I see his age as a fairly big plus as well, 27/28 is when a centre back really starts to shine. He may be playing at a lower level than, say, Ciaran Clark right now but I suspect he would be less prone to costly errors. I like Clark and think he has huge talent, but he is still pretty raw in his approach.

    We have at least four really excellent friendlies to have a look the various centre back options and we should have a better idea at that stage who deserves the nod.

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    and to that I'd add the MON has usually had a very good eye for a CB and has often got a lot from CBs like Elliott and Prior.

    Stan Petrov was on SKY's Fantasy Football show last Saturday am and was asked to pick his best XV of players he has played with.

    His CBs were Balde(!) and Dunne, saying he couldn't believe Dunne wasn't still in the EPL.

    Others from his Celtic days included Alan Thompson (LB), Moravcik (in the Hoolahan / Reid role ) and Larsson and Sutton. All played under O'Neill I'm pretty sure.

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    From what I have seen of him, I haven't seen anything to suggest that he is a better option than O'Shea, Dunne, Clark, Delaney and Wilson. He looked shaky enough last season, conceding several penalties including a game I watched him in.

    Good to see he is doing well this season and good point about St Ledger making the step up to International football even where his League form suffered. By all accounts, Shane Duffy and Alex Pearce are having great seasons too; the former is in Everton's long-term plans and the latter is also in the promotion shake up with Reading. In 12 months time; Kevin Long, Tommie Hoban and Mark O'Brien could become options.

    Assuming a minimum of 4 CB's and a maximum of 5 are included in the squad for the Serbia game, it will be interesting to see who is called up. Of course the fact that several of our CB's also play full back complicates trying to determine who will get the nod.

    I am going to predict Dunne, O'Shea, Clark, Wilson and one of either Delaney, Keogh or Pearce. In fairness, it would be a shame if Delaney didn't get the nod. He has been one of Palace's best 3 players this season.

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