Huge Game for our League

[eoinh]

However, this attitude that somehow Shels success will see the rest of us right, those who realise this are "real" and superior eL fans, and anyone who says otherwise is a "knuckle-dragger" a "yob" and "is quite happy to kick the sh*te out of" rivals, is absolute bulls*ht, Eoin.

Firstly i didnt call anyone a "knuckle-dragger", a "yob" or whatever.

Secondly the last time shels played at the cross i saw a shels team that played professionaly and played us off the park. We deserved to lose that day. Pat Dolan has to get across to the players why we lost and fix it. Moaning about shels and hoping they wont do well in Europe doesnt really help city. Learning from them probably will.
We should be able to do it with a bit more style obviously.

[observer]

I am interested in the comparisons being made between the development and advances shown by the smaller clubs in Europe and EL clubs. One point not being made is the fact that we are an Island. It is far easier for small clubs on the mainland to attract players of a good standard from neighbouring countries. Players who, while talented enough, cannot make it into their own countries Premier League teams. These players are also affordable because their prime motivation is to get playing and be seen. We have to rely on home grown talent who cannot make the breakthrough across channel and return home. Unless of course you are Roddie Collins and have just opened a Dublin based vacation centre for the retired proffessional footballers association of Great Britain.

[inexile]

i agree entirely observer roddy collins should be 4ucked and burned in my opinion because when he was manager of carlisle he was saying how high the standrs was compared to the EL and brought a wagon load of irish players with him well why didnt he bring them back with him? Instead of bring mercenaries over for matches says what he thinks about irish players!! Im all for having as many internationals in the league as possible but not a 40 year old failed manager who played for England to a nations ridicule or a Nigerian striker who could never cut the mustard at the highest level

[patsh]

but 'oily' byrne obviously does give a 4uck about football in this country because he is willing to get up off his arse and invest and try and bring his club forward which no matter what anyone says about him he has done

As does most everybody else in this country. As far as I know, no one is trying to bring their club backwards...(except maybe Waterford? according to some of their fans)

Firstly i didnt call anyone a "knuckle-dragger", a "yob" or whatever.

Secondly the last time shels played at the cross i saw a shels team that played professionaly and played us off the park. We deserved to lose that day. Pat Dolan has to get across to the players why we lost and fix it. Moaning about shels and hoping they wont do well in Europe doesnt really help city. Learning from them probably will.
We should be able to do it with a bit more style obviously.

1. I didn't say you used those terms Eoin, they have been used on this thread though.
2. I also saw a thoroughly professional display by Shels out the cross, and we were well beaten. Its up to Pat Dolan to sort this out, and I also reckon EVERYONE connected with City knows exactly how far behind we are and what we have to do.
However, I simply fail to see any connection between this and demanding of fans that they wish Shels success in Europe.

[inexile]

your just being petty now of course no one wants to bring there club backwards but there isnt too many people who are will to invest in the EL clubs or there local school boy clubs for that matter so we cant really knock anyone who does

[dcfcsteve]

Everyone's focusing on the additional revenue that Shels could attract from a relatively small number of European games (3 or 4 home games in the UEFA group stages - only 1 or 2 of which would be big-name sell-outs - and TV rights to 2 or 3 live matches) as if that will suddenly give them a sufficiently large war-chest to dominate Irish football for all eternity.

The real financial benefit of ANY Irish club doing well in Europe is not from such one-off, opposition-dependent income. It's instead from rich idiots like Courtenay, McManus, Magnier etc, who suddenly twig that it'd be a much better investment to put a small amount of money into an Irish team with genuinely strong potential (Bohs, Cork, Derry etc) than to put a much larger sum into a nothing team like Carlisle that would be unlikely to deliver any return. or a much bigger sum into Man U or Celtic with a much lower likely yield on your investment.

If Irish clubs keep themselves in the public eye through European exploits, sooner or later somebody will see them as a good low-cost financial investment. You would only need to spend a few million on an Irish team that within 3-4yrs could realistically be in the Champions League group stages. Hey presto - serious return on your money for the bored rich, and you become a local hero for Irish sport. No great negative impact if it doesn't work out, as the initial outlay would be relatively small versus your net worth.

Without reliable forms of income, teams can't afford to sign all the best players in the League and dominate it totally. Praying for group-stage qualification each year and games against big European clubs is not a reliable form of income to budget against. Speculating in this way would be foolish for Shels or any other Irish club (ref. Leeds United). Shels have one of the lowest reliable incomes in the league, as their crowds are crap.

The real benefit of any Irish team doing well in Europe would therefore be to stimulate external investment in the league. Ironically, that investment could well go to other clubs than the likes of Shels.

[patsh]

your just being petty now of course no one wants to bring there club backwards but there isnt too many people who are will to invest in the EL clubs or there local school boy clubs for that matter so we cant really knock anyone who does

How am I being petty?
You claimed Byrne was interested in eL soccer because he wants to bring his club forward. Doesn't everybody?
Is pointing this out being petty?...

[inexile]

thats not what im talking about what i meant was you are in no position to knock him as he pumps his money in to his club when i bet you havent gone near your local schoolboy junior or el club to try and help in any way you can whether that be by donating either your time or money as i have already stated its obvious no one wants to bring their club backward but how many of us actually make a serios efforet to bring it forward and until we do we cant be in a position to knock people who do

[patsh]

Good points dcfcsteve, and I've already made the arugment before in different threads that a higher profile for the eL, no matter what club brings that profile, might attract investment to some eL clubs.
However, I resent the continually made argument that fans who do not want to see a rival club get ahead of their club are doing the league a diservice. If thats the case, lets disband all clubs, form one big team and we can all support that team together...

[patsh]

thats not what im talking about what i meant was you are in no position to knock him as he pumps his money in to his club when i bet you havent gone near your local schoolboy junior or el club to try and help in any way you can whether that be by donating either your time or money as i have already stated its obvious no one wants to bring their club backward but how many of us actually make a serios efforet to bring it forward and until we do we cant be in a position to knock people who do

A small bit of advice to you. Don't assume you ever know anything about another poster. You have no idea what position the poster may or may not be in.

[eoinh]

However, I resent the continually made argument that fans who do not want to see a rival club get ahead of their club are doing the league a diservice.

My point is that shels doing well in europe is just as big a benefit to city as it is to shels. or anyother LOI club.

[eoinh]

Everyone's focusing on the additional revenue that Shels could attract from a relatively small number of European games (3 or 4 home games in the UEFA group stages - only 1 or 2 of which would be big-name sell-outs - and TV rights to 2 or 3 live matches) as if that will suddenly give them a sufficiently large war-chest to dominate Irish football for all eternity.

The real financial benefit of ANY Irish club doing well in Europe is not from such one-off, opposition-dependent income. It's instead from rich idiots like Courtenay, McManus, Magnier etc, who suddenly twig that it'd be a much better investment to put a small amount of money into an Irish team with genuinely strong potential (Bohs, Cork, Derry etc) than to put a much larger sum into a nothing team like Carlisle that would be unlikely to deliver any return. or a much bigger sum into Man U or Celtic with a much lower likely yield on your investment.

If Irish clubs keep themselves in the public eye through European exploits, sooner or later somebody will see them as a good low-cost financial investment. You would only need to spend a few million on an Irish team that within 3-4yrs could realistically be in the Champions League group stages. Hey presto - serious return on your money for the bored rich, and you become a local hero for Irish sport. No great negative impact if it doesn't work out, as the initial outlay would be relatively small versus your net worth.

Without reliable forms of income, teams can't afford to sign all the best players in the League and dominate it totally. Praying for group-stage qualification each year and games against big European clubs is not a reliable form of income to budget against. Speculating in this way would be foolish for Shels or any other Irish club (ref. Leeds United). Shels have one of the lowest reliable incomes in the league, as their crowds are crap.

The real benefit of any Irish team doing well in Europe would therefore be to stimulate external investment in the league. Ironically, that investment could well go to other clubs than the likes of Shels.

I would agree with this 100%

[inexile]

A small bit of advice to you. Don't assume you ever know anything about another poster. You have no idea what position the poster may or may not be in.

fair enough point taken but im my eyes that makes it worse because if you do put your time and effort into club you know how much hard work it can be and how often you get **** for thanks

[paudie]

Some interesting points made by both sides of the argument.

I'll still be supporting Shels, even more so when I realised that there are double coefficient points available for these games, so progress would benefit the league even more.

[dancinpants]

Yeah well, its all ****** now anyway Lilles 2 up at half time!!!!

[dancinpants]

Quite the come back, 2-2 now

[GalwayFrancis]

7,400!!!! fucin joke... why was it not played in tolka???? the only reason it should be in lansdowne is when at least 20,000 ppl are in attendance.... shels would have done much better if 7,400 ppl were and it been played in tolka!!!
when Galway United get into europe they better play it in Terryland!!!!
well done shels.... do it for ireland!!

[GalwayFrancis]

sorry mistake with figures...it was 7,463

[ShelsTim]

Our floodlights aren't good enough.

[brendy_éire]

Shocking attendence, it looked terrible on TV. Shels actually lost money on it, aye?

Heartless performance from Shels. Sloppy mistakes, looked like they didn't want to be there. Whatver happened to the spirit shown against Hadjuk Split and Depor?
Great last 10 minutes though. Fair play.