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Thread: Financial Fair Play

  1. #21
    International Prospect NeverFeltBetter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BonnieShels View Post
    And what an interminably boring league that would be. I would love it to happen and for everyone of them to inadvertantly kill the goose and for them all to collapse.
    I would agree, but it seems to work for American sports.
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    International Prospect osarusan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by geysir View Post
    UEFA step up their anti-terrorism campaign
    Uefa fines Ajax (£10K) over fan banners critical of money at Man City game

    Banner showing the sheikh (moneybags) : 'Against Modern Football'




    Another slogan read "€80 for the away section is ridiculous"

    Didn't Man City fans return some away tickets to Arsenal over ticket prices which were cheaper than they made Ajax fans pay?

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    Quote Originally Posted by osarusan View Post
    Didn't Man City fans return some away tickets to Arsenal over ticket prices which were cheaper than they made Ajax fans pay?
    But the Man City away fans didn't set the ticket prices for the Ajax fans, did they?
    I suppose what it means is that sections of the Man City away support are in agreement with the Ajax away support over the away ticket price structure for the respective competitions, the EPL and the CL.

  4. #24
    Coach BonnieShels's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter View Post
    I would agree, but it seems to work for American sports.
    No way you can compare them.

    30 odd teams in each of the big 4. Hockey and Basketball play 80 odd games a season to make cash. Baseball have 162 games in a regular season.
    NFL play 16 regular season games but the sponsorship and advertising revenue are on another planet.
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    There's an interview in today's Guardian with UEFA's general secretary, Gianni Infantino,
    Manchester City and PSG cannot 'cheat' financial fair play, Uefa warns

    Sounds like he's firing a warning shot over the bows at PSG in particular.

    "PSG have to respect the rules, they want to respect the rules. They are telling us they want to respect the rules. The FFP rules are there to help the clubs. Uefa doesn't want to sanction the clubs, we want to help them. But sometimes we have to sanction someone to help the clubs."

    Clubs that exhibit "warning signs" will be investigated by a panel headed by the former Belgian prime minister Jean-Luc Dehaene and sanctions handed down by a separate independent panel.

    Uefa's team of 15 accountants will begin analysing figures next spring for the years 2011-12 and 2012-13, the first period to be monitored under the new break-even regime. Clubs will be allowed an acceptable deviation of up to €45m over those two years, as long as it is met by a benefactor

    A benefactor??
    Last edited by geysir; 05/02/2013 at 4:38 PM.

  6. #26
    Coach BonnieShels's Avatar
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    Ah there's the fudge.
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  7. #27
    Banned. Children Banned. Grandchildren Banned. 3 Months. Charlie Darwin's Avatar
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    In FFP news, Sam Allardyce fears the new rules could unfairly prevents small working-class clubs like West Ham spending £20 million on Andy Carroll.

    Clubs relegated from the English Premier League will now receive £60 million in parachute payments over four years, as opposed to the current £48 million.

    And finally, Ken Early has exposed the German football renaissance for the industry-backed sham that it is, slating clubs like Bayern Munich for taking the "easy" route and unearthing a network of wealthy sponsors steeped in the local community rather than doing things the correct way and finding a billionaire mullah to bankroll the club from afar.

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  9. #28
    Now with extra sauce! Dodge's Avatar
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    Yeah, thought the approach Sky sports took with Allardyce was weird. Not a single question to him on does he think its right that spending be linked to turnover?
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    Banned. Children Banned. Grandchildren Banned. 3 Months. Charlie Darwin's Avatar
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    Surely one of the main reasons backing FFP is that it will stop clubs who can't afford to buying Andy Carroll (et al)?

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    Exactly. Duh.

    It might also make the likes of Andy Carroll less expensive.
    Last edited by Stuttgart88; 16/04/2013 at 7:30 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin View Post
    In FFP news, Sam Allardyce fears the new rules could unfairly prevents small working-class clubs like West Ham spending £20 million on Andy Carroll.

    Clubs relegated from the English Premier League will now receive £60 million in parachute payments over four years, as opposed to the current £48 million.

    And finally, Ken Early has exposed the German football renaissance for the industry-backed sham that it is, slating clubs like Bayern Munich for taking the "easy" route and unearthing a network of wealthy sponsors steeped in the local community rather than doing things the correct way and finding a billionaire mullah to bankroll the club from afar.
    Dem pesky Germans. Imagine actually having successful businesses spread around the whole country and rooted in their community, as well as well-run football clubs also rooted in their community. Utter tosh. Give me a Thatcherite Devil-take-the-hindmost, spendthrift, short-term focused model of foreign oligarch ownership any day of the week. It's a free market, innit? Mark my words, UEFA will return us to communism before we know it. Our liberties are at risk.
    Last edited by Stuttgart88; 16/04/2013 at 7:33 PM.

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    That article by Early is tosh and not fit for publication.

    On the parachute payments which I think are beyond insane...

    It's always trumpeted that you need to spend to stay in the EPL and that you need these payments to make the transition to the championship to ensure you don't go bankrupt without your Sky money; but the question has to be asked why are they rewarding over-spending clubs with more money? It beggars belief and makes me wish for the English football explosion to come ever nearer.

    Interesting point to note:

    For coming bottom of the EPL you will receive £15m; if you win League One you will get £25k as it stands and then the next season you both are in the same division, namely the Championship. MADNESS!
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    Surely the answer is for clubs contract their players on X per week if they're in the EPL but they automatically get reduced to Y per week if they're in the Championship? Or a basic salary with a bonus contingent on staying in the EPL?

    Post-Bosman payers hold all the bargaining power with the clubs. It used to be the other way around but it needs to be reversed a bit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuttgart88 View Post
    Surely the answer is for clubs contract their players on X per week if they're in the EPL but they automatically get reduced to Y per week if they're in the Championship? Or a basic salary with a bonus contingent on staying in the EPL?

    Post-Bosman payers hold all the bargaining power with the clubs. It used to be the other way around but it needs to be reversed a bit.
    It'll take clubs to just say no. Unfortunately that will put them at a supreme disadvantage against their Sheikh and Russian funded rivals.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BonnieShels View Post
    That article by Early is tosh and not fit for publication.
    Why is it tosh? What points of 'fact' do you dispute?
    It's well known that the German clubs have lucrative sponsorship deals with German corporations. Indeed the status quo were crying foul play when Hoffenheim broke into the Bundesliga, not to mention Bayer Leverkusen and their sponsor Bayer AG (the ones who are killing all the bees).

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    Quote Originally Posted by geysir View Post
    Why is it tosh? What points of 'fact' do you dispute?
    It's well known that the German clubs have lucrative sponsorship deals with German corporations. Indeed the status quo were crying foul play when Hoffenheim broke into the Bundesliga, not to mention Bayer Leverkusen and their sponsor Bayer AG (the ones who are killing all the bees).
    It's tosh because Ken is approaching it from the angle of "big bad German clubs will kill our precious La Liga and EPL".

    It's not fit for publication because it is a horrible read.

    Did I have an issue with facts?
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    Quote Originally Posted by BonnieShels View Post
    It's tosh because Ken is approaching it from the angle of "big bad German clubs will kill our precious La Liga and EPL".

    It's not fit for publication because it is a horrible read.
    That doesn't quite cut the mustard.
    Approaching the article earlier today from my usual ... objective ,,,, non agenda perspective, I didn't get that he was implying big bad Germans, precious victims elsewhere. I didn't even get that it was anti- Bundesliga.
    He pretty much states that German football progress also has it's financial edge, which just happens to a substantial cutting edge.
    It's not all down to football talent, good coaching, loud drunk fans who can get cheap tickets, stand up and follow orders in perfect synch from a megaphone conductor, but there is considerable corporate sponsorship in the mix.

    Did I have an issue with facts?
    Yes, do you have an issue with the 'facts'?

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    Maybe Early isn't responsible for the sub-editor's headline but there's a clear tone of disapproval of German clubs benefitting from the fact that their clubs and businesses work closely together. Its the way it should be, and at all levels. What Early appears to be saying is that you can scoff all you like at sugar daddy-funded clubs in England but German clubs get a helping hand too. Well, maybe if German clubs weren't mainly community rooted and seen as important local assets (rather than a brand to be tarted out to foreign oligarchs) then their local businesses wouldn't support them as much. Wolfsburg and Bayer are exceptions, having been founded by their businesses, similar to PSV in Holland. These companies presumably have shareholders to report to so won't be spending money frivolously. There's got to be some perceived benefit or CSR angle. Unless you're Milton Friedman, CSR is generally seen as a good thing.

    Germany has strong businesses the length and breadth of the country. They also have strong football clubs. It's not a coincidence. Their structures and institutions beat England, Spain and Italy's hands down.
    Last edited by Stuttgart88; 16/04/2013 at 10:06 PM.

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    Personally I thought bonnie was taking issue with opinions and the way they were presented. I didn't see him complaining about any facts or alleged facts.

    Anyway, as I alluded to in the McClean thread when it diverted into political philosophy and fascism etc., I said I had become very interested in "ordoliberalism"', a liberal economic approach that competes with laissez faire but is not a full on shift to interventionism. In both business and football the Germans have designed structures that recognise the downside to ultra liberal marketism so set rules and structures that seek to achieve the desired outcomes of markets but which explicitly curtail the worst tendencies. The Germans have long since recognised the football clubs don't always act rationally and will compete with each other in a financial arms race to buy success, which they can't all achieve.

    Sure, there have been many cases of mismanagement and there have been failures and near failures, but there is an acceptance of regulations there that is opposed by many factions in England.
    Last edited by Stuttgart88; 16/04/2013 at 10:16 PM.

  22. #40
    Coach BonnieShels's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by geysir View Post
    That doesn't quite cut the mustard.
    Approaching the article earlier today from my usual ... objective ,,,, non agenda perspective, I didn't get that he was implying big bad Germans, precious victims elsewhere. I didn't even get that it was anti- Bundesliga.
    He pretty much states that German football progress also has it's financial edge, which just happens to a substantial cutting edge.
    It's not all down to football talent, good coaching, loud drunk fans who can get cheap tickets, stand up and follow orders in perfect synch from a megaphone conductor, but there is considerable corporate sponsorship in the mix.

    Are you now implying that I have an agenda and am not objective the same way you inferred I had an issue with the 'facts' as Ken Early presented them?

    There is a clear tone that I, CD, and Stutts and I'm sure many others have picked on that was my main criticism. There is a decent article in there waiting to jump out and in fact if Ken chose to write from the POV of "Look the Germans have loadsa corporate cashmoney as well and they are spending it wisely" then maybe it would warrant more consideration as an article.

    The money and the systems bring through the talent and so on and the cycle will repeat itself, no one on here ever assumed it was all down to one or 2 variables that puts the Bundesliga above everything else.

    Yes, do you have an issue with the 'facts'?
    No, I do not have issue with the facts. Where did I ever say I did or accuse Ken of falsehoods.

    POSH, get in here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuttgart88 View Post
    Personally I thought bonnie was taking issue with opinions and the way they were presented. I didn't see him complaining about any facts or alleged facts.
    Yip, that was my issue.

    And you correctly didn't see me complain about facts.
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