Debate - Future of Youth Development in Irish Football

[pineapple stu]

I think it's only fair to acknowledge that other clubs also have scholarship schemes (Cork, Pat's and Bohs off the top of my head). It's why Jamie McGrath made his senior debut for Pat's rather than UCD (he got into Maynooth rather than UCD, having been with our U19s)

I was surprised to see that we were absolute dead last in that chart. Bad, sure, but dead last isn't good! Behind Liechtenstein, Malta and the Faroes for funding received. Coaching minutes bad, pro coaches bad.

But I suppose it ties into what we know - UEFA mandated these academies (which are a good idea), and the FAI passed it on to the clubs without a jot of support, and they're now effectively taking the guts of €100k per year away from the senior team and impacting our performance there as well.

Again - academies are good. But the way we've implemented it has been disastrous as per usual.

[Joxerbrowne]

People are saying lads having to stay here till 18 is a bad thing im not so sure about that as they will have more exposure to first team football which is a good thing imo.

[osarusan]

Number of Full Time Employee's per Academy

[John83]

People are saying lads having to stay here till 18 is a bad thing im not so sure about that as they will have more exposure to first team football which is a good thing imo.

They won't. Even most talented 16 or 17 year olds aren't ready for men's football. Instead, they'll be stuck in under-resourced youth academies, training less than the lads who cross the Irish Sea under the supervision of part time coaches. If we did this right, they'd be better off here, but it's been clearly shown that we don't. Not yet, at least.

[osarusan]

They won't. Even most talented 16 or 17 year olds aren't ready for men's football. Instead, they'll be stuck in under-resourced youth academies, training less than the lads who cross the Irish Sea under the supervision of part time coaches. If we did this right, they'd be better off here, but it's been clearly shown that we don't. Not yet, at least.

This is it. It has often been said on here that we should keep young lads at home longer rather than them heading off to train and develop at somewhere like Brentford or Barnlsey or wherever, but the idea that the training and development that would take place at home is better than what they get in England isn't borne out by the reality at all.

[Joxerbrowne]

Thing is if someone like Troy Parrott stayed here at 16 he would of 100% been put into a first team squad and getting games at a team like Pats. That imo is much better for him in the long run than playing u18 football in England.

[sbgawa]

This is it. It has often been said on here that we should keep young lads at home longer rather than them heading off to train and develop at somewhere like Brentford or Barnlsey or wherever, but the idea that the training and development that would take place at home is better than what they get in England isn't borne out by the reality at all.

Isnt that the point though of the FAI looking for proper funding for the Academies so we can start doing things properly and stop exporting kids the vast majority of which end up branded as failures with lives messed up.
IF we invested the same money on our kids as we do in greyhounds we could do everything needed here

[CSAD]

One thing not mentioned here is the best 16-17 year olds tend to be on professional deals, I know the likes on Conroy,Mullins,Grehan,Mahon,O’Brien etc at Bohemians are and would therefore get what would be decent enough exposure. The worry here would be the youngsters who are still green and not seen as ready to be put on professional deals, he will they get the exposure required to develop?
Rovers appear to be different as despite what is being reported in that slide still seem able to develop good prospects.

[CSAD]

Isnt that the point though of the FAI looking for proper funding for the Academies so we can start doing things properly and stop exporting kids the vast majority of which end up branded as failures with lives messed up.
IF we invested the same money on our kids as we do in greyhounds we could do everything needed here

Still don’t get how so much money is put into greyhound racing…

[pineapple stu]

I presume it generates a profit through betting or sales of greyhounds or something, but yeah it's a strange one...

Not the most ethical of sports either. Starting to be banned in places in America for example because of what the dogs go through just to get one decent greyhound.

[seanfhear]

I presume it generates a profit through betting or sales of greyhounds or something, but yeah it's a strange one...

Not the most ethical of sports either. Starting to be banned in places in America for example because of what the dogs go through just to get one decent greyhound.

Maybe thats what happens to some of the Soccer Kids as well !

[ForzaForth]

Greyhound sector claims over 5,000 jobs excluding 7,000 owners according to the, eh, Jim Power Report.

THE ECONOMIC AND FINANCIAL SIGNIFICANCE OF THE IRISH GREYHOUND INDUSTRY november 2017 (grireland.ie)

[tetsujin1979]

Interview with the director of football at St Kevin's Boys on the42: https://www.the42.ie/ken-donohoe-int...73682-Jun2021/

[Snapshot]

Interview with the director of football at St Kevin's Boys on the42: https://www.the42.ie/ken-donohoe-int...73682-Jun2021/

Compelling read. Obstacles, self-interest and narrow-mindedness. The following was in BBC Sport. It highlights good development at Swansea against a backdrop of tragedy and despair. I hope it adds something.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/57174111

[tetsujin1979]

Why Brexit will hit young Irish soccer players joining UK clubs: https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2021/0...k-eu-transfer/

[Olé Olé]

Sure, but when we do cap them, then it's totally counter-productive to make a reference to what that cap does. We've got to be above that.



Sure. And maybe we don't exploit his talents in the way Villa did. Maybe we shoe-horn him - f*ck it, I'm not going down this road - he's not ours, he's gone.
Whatever about 2gers & 3gers, with respect to our own lads who were born here and families have remained here, are part of the local communities, we really need to rise above the mentality that they might "defect". If a kid talks about his parish, his old coaches - name-checking them in an interview - with his family still in that community, he's not going anywhere. If a kid has moved from club to club at schoolboy level, his family moves at the first opportunity, and then he trades clubs every year again in that new country - that there is a pragmatist, and international football has f-all meaning to a player like that. You'll have a selfish player that you can have zero guarantees about going forward.

Frankly I find it insulting to the kids and their families who might not be ethnically 100% Irish, but are as committed as those who are. It's an insult to their own backgrounds, to their local clubs and coaches, and to us as well. I'm not necessarily throwing punches at you specifically backs, but this is a narrative that's almost out of control on social media - cap him, tie him down - it's a moveable feast with FIFA, and they'll continue to change goalposts as they see fit, or as money sees fit.
Just look at the current 17s squad. On name alone - without knowing much about them - there's maybe 10 that have dual heritage at least. That's the type of ratio that we'll be looking at for years to come.

I think this is as fair a place as any to pick up Kingdom's post above which I couldn't agree any more with. Given that some of our committed young players don't come from two Irish players which is reflective of the changing and changed Ireland, if we keep referring to lads who are eligible for other countries with a question mark or a suspicion then we are going nowhere fast. Kevin Zefi's thread has the same couple of suggestions in there because his parents are Albanian.

Evan Ferguson's UK qualification was just handy to circumvent Brexit was the tone there. Zefi moving to Italy could impact him playing for Ireland. And we need to tie down Omobamidele.

Not having a go at any posters but I just want to highlight the dangers here. There's another forum around where you will some pretty daft and unfair speculation about a lot of dual qualified lads that were born and grew up in Ireland.

[passinginterest]

Reading through the early pages of this thread and the prospects under 21 thread you can almost pinpoint the time our young players got left behind and our domestic coaching system and method of shipping player to England fell apart. The prospects thread was basically 2009-2011 and the crop of players that came through there are effectively the last group to make the breakthrough. This thread started around 2012 and you can see immediately how the SFAI and the South Dublin League in particular are welded to the old ways, while others are pushing to try and implement small sided games, modern coaching and a proper development pathway. The generation starting to come through now, the 18/19/20 year olds are the first ones really exposed to the changes, and most of them would have probably still spent the early formative years in an old school set up. It's only the 13/14 year olds today that are going to have mainly been exposed to modern coaching throughout their developmental years and we won't see them breaking through for another 6-10 years. It further exposes the massive rebuild facing the national team. Other nations have done it, notably the likes of Belgium who, in one of the threads, were being suggested as a soft touch 3rd seed to draw in a qualifying campaign!

[CSAD]

Reading through the early pages of this thread and the prospects under 21 thread you can almost pinpoint the time our young players got left behind and our domestic coaching system and method of shipping player to England fell apart. The prospects thread was basically 2009-2011 and the crop of players that came through there are effectively the last group to make the breakthrough. This thread started around 2012 and you can see immediately how the SFAI and the South Dublin League in particular are welded to the old ways, while others are pushing to try and implement small sided games, modern coaching and a proper development pathway. The generation starting to come through now, the 18/19/20 year olds are the first ones really exposed to the changes, and most of them would have probably still spent the early formative years in an old school set up. It's only the 13/14 year olds today that are going to have mainly been exposed to modern coaching throughout their developmental years and we won't see them breaking through for another 6-10 years. It further exposes the massive rebuild facing the national team. Other nations have done it, notably the likes of Belgium who, in one of the threads, were being suggested as a soft touch 3rd seed to draw in a qualifying campaign!

It’s no coincidence that we have a decent batch of 29+ years olds and a very promising batch of 19-20-21 years and very little in between. That is really hurting us now because that middle group should be driving the team forward. By Euro 2024 most of that 19-20-21 year group will be potentially part of the middle group and hopefully that makes us a competitive team by that point.

[John83]

It’s no coincidence that we have a decent batch of 29+ years olds and a very promising batch of 19-20-21 years and very little in between. That is really hurting us now because that middle group should be driving the team forward. By Euro 2024 most of that 19-20-21 year group will be potentially part of the middle group and hopefully that makes us a competitive team by that point.

I think that's too early; they'll be 22-24 at the tournament, sure, but we need to qualify first, and some of the older lads will be in decline by then - Coleman will be 35 for example. Really, we need that generation to mature and a second generation behind them to come through before we can look like a real team again.

[CSAD]

I think that's too early; they'll be 22-24 at the tournament, sure, but we need to qualify first, and some of the older lads will be in decline by then - Coleman will be 35 for example. Really, we need that generation to mature and a second generation behind them to come through before we can look like a real team again.

It’ll be on the early side without question but then again it’s the Euros so we should still atleast have a solid shot on making that tournament provided we get a decent draw considering 24 teams qualify. It’ll probably be 2026 by the time we start seeing the team really hitting their straps.