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Thread: Debate - Future of Youth Development in Irish Football

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    Quote Originally Posted by tetsujin1979 View Post
    Coerver coaching are making their coaching drills available for free during the current healthcare crisis: https://coerverew.typeform.com/to/y6Zu8K
    You're not going to like the thoughts in my head about this, Tets

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    Off The Ball interviewed Republic of Ireland u15 head coach Jason Donohue, FAI Head of Coach Education Niall O'Regan, and Women's Football Development Officer Pearl Slattery on the development of players: https://www.otbsports.com/podcasts/t...ballers-future
    All goals, yellow and red cards tweeted in real time on mastodon, BlueSky and facebook

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    Twitter thread on the rules for British clubs signing youth players post brexit
    All goals, yellow and red cards tweeted in real time on mastodon, BlueSky and facebook

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    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Can they still get around that by relocating families?

    Where there's a will there's a way and all that.

    It should be the wake-up call the domestic game needs though. If we take it, the game could be much stronger here. If we don't, then we're heading towards being fourth seeds, and deservedly so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    Can they still get around that by relocating families?

    Where there's a will there's a way and all that.

    It should be the wake-up call the domestic game needs though. If we take it, the game could be much stronger here. If we don't, then we're heading towards being fourth seeds, and deservedly so.
    Relocating families might also require work permits for parents.

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    Irish people don't need a visa/work permit to work in the UK I think. As in, they didn't before the EEC because of our close relationship (ie the Brits needed someone to build their roads and sure we were mostly British anyway)

    I think that still exists in theory. If it does - and comes back in post-Brexit - then the relocation thing would work

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    I'm always very shy to blow my own trumpet but I did bring this matter up before the referendum, a 'what if the English voted en masse for Brexit?' I think Charlie Darwin replied and actually added some percipient content. FIFA regulations re the transfer of minors are above whatever special relationship we have with the countries within the UK.

    One thing is that training compensation is only paid to associations within the EU/EEA

    i don't know about the solidarity payment.

    International tranfers of minors under the age of 18 are not permitted between associations outside the EU/EEA

    FIFA resource document

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  11. #428
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    I agree that these FIFA rules would trump our special agreement, but if a promising Irish footballer just happened to move to England with his family for work reasons, is he an overseas player any more?

    That said, you'd imagine there's not a lot of players here who'd merit that kind of attention

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    But that promising Irish player presumably would have been registered with an Irish club before moving to England and presumably would have to be registered with his/her new English club. There is no way around it unless an English club indulges in hanky panky and the irish club plays along.

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    That's true, but by that logic a junior player whose family genuinely did emigrate to England for work reasons wouldn't be able to join a club in England surely? That can't be right

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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    That's true, but by that logic a junior player whose family genuinely did emigrate to England for work reasons wouldn't be able to join a club in England surely? That can't be right
    That might be different but what we are talking about (99%) are genuinely talented young Irish players signing up with UK clubs in pursuit of sporting greatness.
    The family moving with the player would be as a support, but really wouldn't it only be the Mom?

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    "Mom"? *shudder*

    Hate that word.

    Anyway - why would they be different? I agree deep down they're different, but under the letter of the law if the latter is allowed, why wouldn't the former be?

    And again, I don't think we have anyone really worth that much hassle over at the moment. But if English football goes back to pre-92, then it might start to be a factor on occasion

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    They are diffferent because in your scenario the family emigrates to the UK and the yewt just happens to turn out to be a possible Maradonna.
    In 99% of cases the youth has been officially registered with an Irish club and is transferred to a UK club because of promise.
    Should any adjudication follow that difference matters a lot.

    That's why FIFA have changed their statutes recently toi differentiate betwen genuine family emigration and emigration purely for football purposes.

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    OK, that's a fair point (that's not related to Brexit). But how effective is it in reality? Or is it just FIFA paying lip-service to what's not far off child trafficking? They don't tend to stand in the way of big clubs getting what they want. I would still say there has to be a large grey area between legit emigration and a club-engineered one (allowing that there can be obvious abuses of the system too of course)

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    Brexit: New entry criteria agreed for EU players coming to England - BBC Sport

    Good news or bad news for young Irish talent going to England?

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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    OK, that's a fair point (that's not related to Brexit). But how effective is it in reality? Or is it just FIFA paying lip-service to what's not far off child trafficking? They don't tend to stand in the way of big clubs getting what they want. I would still say there has to be a large grey area between legit emigration and a club-engineered one (allowing that there can be obvious abuses of the system too of course)
    The relation to Brexit is that the legal transfer age now changes from 16 to 18 between Ireland (Éire) and the UK associations.

    Here is an informative article about some of the FIFA actions for known violations by clubs over the transfer of minors but consider also the other effect from the recent changes in the statutes that set criteria to more clearly differentiate between genuine migration and an illegal football purposed migration. Any FIFA investigation would look for evidence of genuine migration.

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    It's probably not hard for the clubs to lure some families across the water for the sake of the kid's career, but it'll be another disincentive for them to recruit here, and makes domestic coaching of teenagers all the more critical to the future of the national team.

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    Yeah, that's the way I'd look at it. Moving from Korea to Spain isn't quite the same as moving from Ireland to England.

    But it's definitely encouraging that FIFA are set up to keep an eye on such matters. I don't entirely trust them, but it's an important issue and should be looked at closely.

    And at the risk of repeating myself, I don't see relocating a family being a remotely common option at all, even if it can be done out of the roving eye of FIFA. I do think this rule change will impact on Irish football. Players will either go to the continent (but we've no real tradition of doing that), or they'll come through the LoI system (which then needs investment, which the FAI and the Irish public in general seem incapable of or unwilling to give), or they'll fall through the cracks more.

    I do think that either the LoI is helped step up, or our international standing will continue to fall.

    The flip side is an Irish player once they turn 18 should be of more interest to English clubs if we have a special working agreement that other EU countries don't have. Whether the Premier League will keep its standing is another question of course.

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    And another twitter thread, this one goes into more detail and has links to relevant articles
    All goals, yellow and red cards tweeted in real time on mastodon, BlueSky and facebook

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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    I agree that these FIFA rules would trump our special agreement, but if a promising Irish footballer just happened to move to England with his family for work reasons, is he an overseas player any more?

    That said, you'd imagine there's not a lot of players here who'd merit that kind of attention
    That's allegedly what Stokes did with Arsenal. Father was a scout?
    Here they come! It’s the charge of the “Thanks” Brigade!

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