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Thread: Debate - Future of Youth Development in Irish Football

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks View Post
    Also slightly related. Young Scottish left back Stephen Kingsley has signed for Swansea, a good passing team. Robert Snodgrass is back in the PL with Hull. Ross McCormack linked with a big money move to PL clubs. Chris Kettings has moved to Crystal Palace as back up for Julian Speroni. West Brom had a bid rejected for Andrew Robertson. Burnley had a bid rejected for Craig Bryson. Matt Gilks heavily linked with PL clubs. Ross Wallace, Paul Gallagher, Scott Arfield and Matt Phillips have all been promoted to the PL with their clubs.
    The impact that almost all of that list (Snodgrass and, maybe, Phillips aside) will have upon the Premier League next season will be completely and utterly negligible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BonnieShels View Post
    Where did you see that? Tets posted it yesterday.
    Haha, sorry, Tets! I'd seen it on the BBC during my lunch. I will skim Foot.ie more carefully on my work lunch-break in future!

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    Brian Lenihan to Arsenal? Thescore.ie

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuttgart88 View Post
    Brian Lenihan to Arsenal? Thescore.ie
    Also linked with Aston Villa, Everton, Wigan and Bournemouth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuttgart88 View Post
    Brian Lenihan to Arsenal? Thescore.ie
    I thought Arsenal stopped scouting in Ireland.

    Hope this rumour is true. Would be good for player and LOI.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Olé Olé View Post
    The impact that almost all of that list (Snodgrass and, maybe, Phillips aside) will have upon the Premier League next season will be completely and utterly negligible.
    I would rather have thirty players making a negligible impact on the PL than the depleting numbers of Irish players (probably around 12) making a negligible impact on the PL. Three or four Scottish players scored virtually more goals than our entire pool of players in the Championship. They have several players at Dundee United, alone, who are linked with huge clubs - one of them just moved to Sporting Lisbon.

    It's shocking being an Irish fan these days. No players displaying upward mobility - or any kind of mobility - such as that of moving to continental clubs. One of two players averaging 6 or 7 a season in the League and then one or two chipping in with one or two.

    Our best LB option is Stephen Ward FFS! Two Scottish left backs are on the move to the PL this summer!

    With Dunne facing a struggle to start for QPR, the midfield signings Hull are making allied with Brady's continuing fitness struggles, the players relegated/retired/out of contract and no players coming up with the promoted teams our numbers in the PL are depleting and this, an increase in foreign managers, increased scouting across the rest of the world, the lifestyle attraction of playing in US and Australia and an unwillingness of Irish players to even consider playing anywhere other than Scotland or England.... I forecast dark days.

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    I guess I should just give up supporting Ireland now...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuttgart88 View Post
    Brian Lenihan to Arsenal? Thescore.ie
    Quote Originally Posted by CityRebel View Post
    Also linked with Aston Villa, Everton, Wigan and Bournemouth.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagger View Post
    I thought Arsenal stopped scouting in Ireland.

    Hope this rumour is true. Would be good for player and LOI.
    Looks like our youth prospects have "turned the corner".
    DID YOU NOTICE A SIGN OUTSIDE MY HOUSE...?

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    Wasn't the headline "arsenal looking at the new Seamus Coleman"? He's only 26 ffs. Lenihan has been very good from the little I've seen of him. Still plenty of time for him, not sure Arsenal is right fit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by centre mid View Post
    Wasn't the headline "arsenal looking at the new Seamus Coleman"? He's only 26 ffs. Lenihan has been very good from the little I've seen of him. Still plenty of time for him, not sure Arsenal is right fit.
    Tough one, isn't it? Arguably, Arsenal aren't lightyears ahead of Everton, who managed to nurture Seamie into the best right-back in the PL. Furthermore, Arsene Wenger tends to give youth much more of a chance at Arsenal than David Moyes did at Everton.

    I was thinking to myself, maybe Bournemouth is the best option because he's likely to progress to first-team level at a faster rate and they're a club on the up under Eddie Howe. On the other hand, the coaching he'll get at Arsenal is likely to be better and he'll likely be afforded superior loan options at Arsenal than Bournemouth could provide.

    Maybe it's as simple a fact that if he has enough talent he'll make it at a level reflecting those talents. But Conor Clifford and Christy Fagan were regarded by some in the know as the two of the best young players to come out of Ireland in the last 10 years and neither has progressed to the top level (maybe there's something in the fact that they moved to clubs of Arsenal's stature i.e. Chelsea and Manchester United, and at a younger age). So many variables to take into account. It'll be a tough decision if he does get a few offers on the table. Alls we can do is hope for the best for the lad!

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    It's hard to know. The Coleman route was ideal. Move to big club and get lent out, but with an automatic pathway back to a big club. If Lenihan went to Bournemouth, even if he impressed his pathway upwards would be less certain.

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    Yeah, and Coleman was lent to an upwardly mobile side (at the time) in Blackpool, so he was involved in the fever pitch of a PL promotion. It all just fell beautifully for Seamie, bar that one average season he had. But that average season was on the back of a very, very good season so he had acquired goodwill on the back of that.

    Perhaps Arsenal would be a great move for Lenihan, if the interest is genuine. He'd be getting the best coaching and likely to get a good loan because his fee will have given effect to a tangible indication of how Arsenal rate him and a marked market value. If he, consequently, doesn't make it at Arsenal then he should have suitors of a decent level. It'll all depend on how far he is from the top.

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    Quite a few of Arsenal's League Cup starlets have plummeted down the leagues too, though.

    Towk is pretty downbeat about our future prospects, and probably with good reason, but it'd be nice to think some lads are on the verge of a decent breakthrough if their cards fall right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks View Post
    No players displaying upward mobility - or any kind of mobility - such as that of moving to continental clubs. One of two players averaging 6 or 7 a season in the League and then one or two chipping in with one or two..........the lifestyle attraction of playing in US and Australia and an unwillingness of Irish players to even consider playing anywhere other than Scotland or England.... I forecast dark days.
    Got to agree. Just looking at the World Cup and teams like Costa Rica, Algeria and to an extent, Honduras. All are some way ahead of us based on their performances in Brazil. Teamwork, ball retention, fighting for the cause etc are all attributes those teams have, among everyone else at this year's World Cup with the possible exception of England, and we don't anymore.

    You mention the attraction of playing in the USA. I live here and I would dearly love to see our young lads come over here en masse. I cannot complement the coaching here enough and I firmly believe that Irish kids would do themselves a world of good if they were to come. It is the land of opportunity (or at least it was before some politicians got a hold of it) and it can be the land of opportunity for Irish football going forward.

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    Just as an aside, you should read Dave Hannigan's article on US footy in the Irish a Times from a few days ago. Basically, coaching costs a packet and only middle class kids can afford to play. Clint Dempsey was from a poor background but was so obviously gifted others mucked in to help his family pay. Lots of poor kids are priced out of foot all.

    Anyway, Stephanie Roche has just gone to France! Dem French must think all Irish athletes have that name.

    Of course the question is, even if. our kids were prepared to go abroad, would they be wanted? Like in business we should be looking to form reciprocal arrangements and partnerships with potential trading partners.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mark12345 View Post
    Got to agree. Just looking at the World Cup and teams like Costa Rica, Algeria and to an extent, Honduras. All are some way ahead of us based on their performances in Brazil. Teamwork, ball retention, fighting for the cause etc are all attributes those teams have, among everyone else at this year's World Cup with the possible exception of England, and we don't anymore.

    You mention the attraction of playing in the USA. I live here and I would dearly love to see our young lads come over here en masse. I cannot complement the coaching here enough and I firmly believe that Irish kids would do themselves a world of good if they were to come. It is the land of opportunity (or at least it was before some politicians got a hold of it) and it can be the land of opportunity for Irish football going forward.
    We drew with Costa Rica and missed a penalty. Honduras were muck. Algeria were good but then again North African football is of a consistently high quality and many players were developed in France.

    I'm not saying that what you say is wrong. Teamwork, cohesion etc etc is very important. Let's see if MON can get this. It took both Jack and Mick a long time to make much difference.

    But the key is that there are many decent European countries who (a) struggled to qualify and (b) wouldn't have had much impact even if they did. This tournament has been the best of south and Central America and Europe with a few gate crashers, each of whom has an easy path to qualification. Only 4 teams outside Europe's elite qualify for a WC.

    This World Cup has important lessons, as they all do, but at the same time no World Cup can ever be definitive proof football in an island of 4m people is in the stone age. The evidence in our case probably lies elsewhere! I know the Irish mentality: we'd be walking up Croagh Patrick naked if we "only" did what Croatia or Bosnia did. Personally I'd be very happy if we could get to that level in the first instance. Then we take our chances wrt good draws etc. Every World Cup has its minnow story. That's a far different thing to saying Ireland should or even could always be a successful World Cup minnow.
    Last edited by Stuttgart88; 05/07/2014 at 9:26 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuttgart88 View Post
    Just as an aside, you should read Dave Hannigan's article on US footy in the Irish a Times from a few days ago. Basically, coaching costs a packet and only middle class kids can afford to play. Clint Dempsey was from a poor background but was so obviously gifted others mucked in to help his family pay. Lots of poor kids are priced out of foot all.
    That was a definite eye opener of a read, amazing achievement because a relative handful of scholarships aside, they are basically bypassing the social demographic most countries draw the majority of their talent from.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks View Post
    I would rather have thirty players making a negligible impact on the PL than the depleting numbers of Irish players (probably around 12) making a negligible impact on the PL. Three or four Scottish players scored virtually more goals than our entire pool of players in the Championship. They have several players at Dundee United, alone, who are linked with huge clubs - one of them just moved to Sporting Lisbon.

    It's shocking being an Irish fan these days. No players displaying upward mobility - or any kind of mobility - such as that of moving to continental clubs. One of two players averaging 6 or 7 a season in the League and then one or two chipping in with one or two.

    Our best LB option is Stephen Ward FFS! Two Scottish left backs are on the move to the PL this summer!

    With Dunne facing a struggle to start for QPR, the midfield signings Hull are making allied with Brady's continuing fitness struggles, the players relegated/retired/out of contract and no players coming up with the promoted teams our numbers in the PL are depleting and this, an increase in foreign managers, increased scouting across the rest of the world, the lifestyle attraction of playing in US and Australia and an unwillingness of Irish players to even consider playing anywhere other than Scotland or England.... I forecast dark days.
    I'm confused Ted. Are you now endorsing Keane's playing in the US?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke View Post
    That was a definite eye opener of a read, amazing achievement because a relative handful of scholarships aside, they are basically bypassing the social demographic most countries draw the majority of their talent from.
    And yet the US players are still prone to a dive or two.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuttgart88 View Post
    we'd be walking up Croagh Patrick naked if we "only" did what Croatia or Bosnia did. Personally I'd be very happy if we could get to that level in the first instance.
    Well put. I would be very happy if we could achieve that level in, say, the next six years, and go from there.

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