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Thread: Debate - Future of Youth Development in Irish Football

  1. #381
    Coach tetsujin1979's Avatar
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    Here's the article: https://www.independent.ie/sport/soc...-36875649.html
    I'm not really sure what he's trying to say, is it that the system has worked in the past producing players like Duff, Keane, McGrath, etc why change it?
    Isn't the problem that the schoolboy clubs were producing players with the aim of selling then to English academies, instead of for the national side?

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  3. #382
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    Thanks Tets. Yes, that's my understanding too. And the production line hasn't exactly been producing since the Duff/Keane/Dunne era either. His opposition to LOI clubs is also based on their lack of tradition in underage development. The whole crux of this is to join up the pyramid, making a move to a LOI underage team or senior domestic football the next step up for a schoolboy club player. The LOI clubs must have the infrastructure to accommodate that. But I don't see this as an "either/or" situation. Schoolboy clubs can still develop players and sell to England but they can also just do what they should be doing - working with young kids until they're ready to move up. The LOI clubs' new role is filling the big gap in the pyramid that previously existed. That's my basic understanding anyway.

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    Just watching Croatia against Denmark in the World Cup here and a few things jumped out at me, from an Irish perspective. There was much noise after the second leg against Denmark that they were so much more technically proficient than us. I think that their technical proficiency was blown up. Aside from Delaney and Eriksen, I feel we match them easily. Tonight against Croatia, it was clearly evident that it is Croatia that would be a mile away from us in that regard. All night their midfielders were coming looking for the ball off the centre-halves with a man behind them. I couldn't believe the amount of times Rakitic, Kovacic and Modric demanded the ball whilst a Dane was breathing down their neck. Even their full-backs had this calmness (which bordered on lackadaisical) when being pressed by Danish wingers or when going forward with the ball. Lovren went rogue with wayward long balls on a few occasions but Vida always utilised the outball, be it a midfielder or full-back. They lacked intensity though. I was disappointed with that.

    Intensity wouldn't be something that we would lack. But we would lack the calmness on the ball. For example, for all his positive traits, Jeff Hendrick would never be able to come demand the ball from his centre-halves or even slightly further forward around the middle where he would be expected and required to maintain possession. There is an inherent fear of losing possession in our players which manifested itself a few times for the Danish goals against us, for example Stephen Ward on a few occasions.

    This is one of the reasons we have been delighted to play Rice in midfield. And who will take over from Rice or play beside him when fit? James McCarthy most likely. Both players that weren't developed in our system. That composure, for all his industry, also goes missing when Meyler is at the base of our midfield.

    So how is this developed? I don't know anything about youth development in football. I do know, however, that Croatia consistently produce these players (Boban, prototype). Dinamo Zagreb and Hajduk Split churn out these midfielders. The population of Croatia is only slgihtly in excess of 4million. Of course, if it was as easy as copying Croatia then everyone would be at it. But I'm just intrigued by Croatia in a different way to the country that we would normally compare ourselves, refer and defer to (through Ruud Dokter) in the context of youth development- the Netherlands.
    Last edited by Olé Olé; 01/07/2018 at 10:02 PM.

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  6. #384
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    Willingness to receive the ball under pressure and the ability to protect it are really valuable. Rice has it, Gibson had it, but few others do. I thought young Tyreke Wright(?) in our U17s was brilliant at receiving the ball under pressure when I saw him against Bosnia. We've had a collective fear of losing the ball in our half ever since Charlton's days.

    I've loved the number of teams who take short goal kicks even under pressure in this World Cup. Imagine an Irish keeper taking a short goal kick to Shane Duffy tightly marked, expecting a one-two and a further one-two with a full back. But France scored from one such move and other dangerous attacks have been spawned from this situation. Belgium were almost suicidal against England with their short goal kicks, but then again, they and been under orders to lose

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    GOOD LUCK TO ENGLAND IN THE WORLD CUP - THEY DESERVE IT.
    Probably not going to get too many 'likes' for this post, but it's time to start giving credit where it is due. Finally English football is coming out of the dark ages to play the game the way it is supposed to be played.
    Gone, it appears, is the long ball game which has dogged their international team for almost half a century, replaced by a more measured passing and technical version.
    The question which now must be asked is will we benefit from this rebirth of the English game? Will our lads take heart from seeing their club mates play the game properly, and get results for their efforts?
    Seeing is believing as they say. And, I guess, the $64K question, will Martin O'Neill be the man to usher in a new style of football soccer similar to the way England are currently playing?
    Is our future bright, or will it just be more of the same old ####

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    I really DON'T want England to win the WC, but as you say credit where it's due. A lot of the old problems seem to be fixed, ball retention, game management etc. I still see them as a set piece team rather than anything particularly sophisticated but this is a young team and England has done really well at all the underage levels in the last few years and could soon start to dominate. I'm still an old curmudgeon though and think that even we could be in good stead if we were in a mini-tournament with Tunisia, Panama, Colombia and Sweden.

    I have no faith in O'Neill whatsoever, though we have been experimenting with 3 at the back. I think he picks the wrong players and is far too reactive. I don't think he's on top of developments in the world game over the last decade.

    But O'Neill isn't the story. The Emerging Talent programme appears to be bearing fruit. I was very impressed on many levels with our under 17s. I do worry about the 21s though as King is too old school. There is no consistency between junior and senior teams in terms of set up. The LOI/ schoolboy club power shift is a good thing and several clubs like Rovers are doing good things at youth level. Parts of our system are working well, others aren't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mark12345 View Post
    And, I guess, the $64K question, will Martin O'Neill be the man to usher in a new style of football soccer similar to the way England are currently playing?
    Is our future bright, or will it just be more of the same old ####
    I think, as much as I am loving this WC (soon as someone finally puts the brakes on England, ill fully relax and enjoy what remains of, it even more - yes, I realise that needs to happen real soon) it has been so apparent that whatever remains of MON's tenure over us, is time wasted. The way 'lesser' nations sides have superbly used the ball even after being under periods of severe pressure is something that's of no interest to the man, and his punditry on ITV although entertaining at times has betrayed that this mindset will not be changing from him, more than that in fact, I don't think his arrogance even allows him to see how the game has levelled up from what he sends his sides out to do.

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  11. #388
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    https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.rte.ie/amp/990806/

    This Is good to see Ex players Been involved.

  12. #389
    Coach tetsujin1979's Avatar
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    Stephen Hunt: German model worth following to help our young players develop: https://www.independent.ie/sport/col...-37345077.html
    A few weeks ago I had a conversation with Ruud Dokter and he said there is no right or wrong path to the Irish senior team for a talented underage boy in Ireland. But what we now have is a structure in place which is giving us a chance of developing more of these players into internationals.
    All goals, yellow and red cards tweeted in real time: http://twitter.com/irish_abroad and posted to facebook: https://www.facebook.com/irishfootballstatisics

  13. #390
    Coach tetsujin1979's Avatar
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    Good article in the Independent on the role of parents in a footballer's development: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/d...b56b7acf53485d
    All goals, yellow and red cards tweeted in real time: http://twitter.com/irish_abroad and posted to facebook: https://www.facebook.com/irishfootballstatisics

  14. #391
    Coach tetsujin1979's Avatar
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    O'Neill is enthusiastic about the talent coming through from under 17 and under 19 squads: 'We should be able to pick players from this country' - Martin O'Neill feels Ireland won't need to rely on granny rule in the future
    "I was speaking to our young managers only the other day, the lads leading the under 17s and 19s, you wouldn't believe how enthusiastic those lads are, how talented those young lads are. You wouldn't believe it," O'Neill said.
    "The players want to play for their country. These things here coming up [with players declaring or not declaring for Ireland], it won't be in my time but you will see a spell here where we will have proper Premier League players playing for us.
    All goals, yellow and red cards tweeted in real time: http://twitter.com/irish_abroad and posted to facebook: https://www.facebook.com/irishfootballstatisics

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    Report on the recent under 15 training camp.
    Pat Quinn's son, (ie Alan and Stephen's nephew) was involved in the camp and Pat speaks to the reporter

  16. #393
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    Diets, trials and "off the wall" schedules: Inside football development in Ireland
    It is one of the quirkier facts of Irish football that it took until June 2018 and Darragh Lenihan’s arrival on after 35 minutes for John O’Shea in the game against the USA before the record books said the county of Meath had produced an Irish senior international.
    The expansion over the county border of Dublin’s suburbs should mean that number two is not quite so long coming but in the meantime there may be a generation of players who, when they line out for their country in the coming years, will look back and reflect on how that part of their story started there.
    All goals, yellow and red cards tweeted in real time: http://twitter.com/irish_abroad and posted to facebook: https://www.facebook.com/irishfootballstatisics

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  18. #394
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    https://m.independent.ie/sport/socce...-37583546.html article discussing the pathway to a professional career in soccer to a that of a niche world sport

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    Worthwhile article in the sense that it shows just how incomparable the two sports are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuttgart88 View Post
    Worthwhile article in the sense that it shows just how incomparable the two sports are.
    Exactly and reinforces how lazy and idiotic all those articles over the last few weeks have been comparing the two. It's like asking how come athletics can't just follow the boxing template to win the 1500 metres at the Olympics. Idiotic

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  23. #397
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    Steven Reid and Lee Carsley are speaking about coaching in Bournemouth on Monday: https://tombatescoaching.com/the-fut...#wolverhampton
    There's a follow up event in Dublin in a month, if anyone is interested
    All goals, yellow and red cards tweeted in real time: http://twitter.com/irish_abroad and posted to facebook: https://www.facebook.com/irishfootballstatisics

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