Debate - Future of Youth Development in Irish Football

[paul_oshea]

Graham asks
"how can these clubs maintain academies while running a first team in a professional league?"

The answer is, not as Graham asserts to cut the senior team costs, seeing as LOI clubs are already operating at well below the norm standards of finance. Rather the coaching fees can be shared between the FAI, the club and the parents. The kid becomes a club member and pays a membership fee which covers a good part of the coaching.

Whats the norm standards of finance. And i dont want waffly wordy wobble, I want figures and facts, to explain what normal standards of finance are.

[CraftyToePoke]

West Ham (former) porn barons to pump money into Irish football via an academy at Shamrock Rovers?

Discuss...

Why do you suspect they would do this with their hard earned ? One of them is called Sullivan. That unlikely angle apart I cannot make head nor tail of it.

[Stuttgart88]

In fairness, they are quite astute. For example, I hear Gold does all recruitment, or oversees it anyway. They have done well on that front lately. He obviously sees some merit (assuming the stories are true).

I can't imagine they're doing with out of the goodness of their hearts but I'm sure they see potential for a few more Bradys, Doyles and Longs.

They probably also see the LOI as a stepping-stone for a work permit to facilitate introduction to the EPL of non-EU players. Belgium is known as a "stepping stone league" in football recruitment circles.

€4-5 million (the amount I read would be invested in the academy) is chicken feed to West Ham in light of the new EPL TV deal, their move to a bigger stadium and possible CL qualification even. That amount will buy you a mediocre French or African player who'll warm the bench and contribute eff all.

I don't much like Gold, Sullivan and Brady and their move to the Olympic Stadium stank (although good business on their part) but part of me thinks this is how it should work. For all intents and purposes Irish football is part of the English pyramid (our best players have always played there, Irish people watch & support English clubs) but we have never got the benefit of the solidarity payments that the lower levels of the English pyramid receive. This would go some distance towards redressing that balance. We've always moaned about the pittance clubs like Sligo received for Seamus Coleman.

It's a question of degrees. I'd like to see this happen but in a way that doesn't involve Rovers selling its soul hook, line and sinker.

[gastric]

If it works, we might other premiership club doing the same. For me, if it means kids being able to stay in Ireland until they are 18 and not feeling forced to leave for England at an earlier age that would be a good thing. However, of course there is no guarantee of that.

[Kingdom]

I'd like to thank everyone who has contributed to this thread over the last few years. I've dipped in and out occasionally, but I read it completely there this morning, and there are plenty of very good contributions. There is plenty of food for thought, and I think that with patience in the new system, we should start to see dividends in the next generation.

[Lionel Ritchie]

Ruud Dokter has been given a new five-year deal by the FAI.

I wish the FAI would take on one of his prime recommendations that being changing schoolboy football over to a May to October league. I'd see that as a positive development for all levels of football.
I don't buy for a minute the argument that we're 'competing' with the GAA in summer. That mindset in both associations is paranoid and unhelpful. There's 7 days in the week and long evenings -plenty of time for both codes to train and play.
Societally our problem is our kids aren't playing enough sport not too much of it -be it football, gaelic, hurling or whatever mix of them.
Damien Duff said just last week in an interview that he reckons that in 1990 when he was ...what ten? that he was kicking a football somewhere close on 20 hours a week and reckoned todays kids were getting nowhere near that. He's bang on.

Nor do I buy into the 'burnout' argument -that tends to come from coaches (in any code btw) who are hell bent on being the Jose Murinho of the under 12 scene rather than developing their squad both collectively and individually as student footballers. Playing through the summer they'd be forced to use their squads more rather than their preferred starting line ups.

[tetsujin1979]

20 hours a week, is three hours a day (more or less), then factor in schoolwork, other sports, and that's a lot of their time spent just playing football. Not that I don't agree that kids should be playing more, but not every child is going to spend that much time playing football

[hoops1]

I wish the FAI would take on one of his prime recommendations that being changing schoolboy football over to a May to October league. I'd see that as a positive development for all levels of football.
I don't buy for a minute the argument that we're 'competing' with the GAA in summer. .

As far as I'm aware it is currently being voted on by the clubs and is expected to pass. This will be the final year with the current schedule

[Bungle]

St Kevin's beat Barcelona in the St Kevin's tournament today. Can't say i was there but given that Lyon and Celtic also had teams in it, i'd imagine that they sent their best of that age group.

Obviously, they're only 12 and 13 but it highlights that despite the obstacles, we are still producing good talent. Kevin's really are a great club. Nearly all of our best players these days coming through seem to be connected to them.

[Bungle]

http://m.independent.ie/sport/soccer...-34574586.html

[Lionel Ritchie]

@tets I agree. Which is why I think the change to summer schoolboy football would be helpful as it would allow footballers of all levels and capabilities a better opportunity to develop to their full potential. I don't expect expect the vast, vast majority of young footballers to spend anything like that time playing. Maybe 'elite' youngsters of the calibre to which a young Duff would've belonged might. But I think the aim should be affording as many kids as possible, again kids of all levels and capabilities, the chance to play and engage with developing their footballing skills and get them playing the game regularly and habitually. That can't happen in the current set up. (My ten year old had every game and most training sessions between mid November and late February rubbed out due to weather). In that regard I may be deviating somewhat from Dokkters stated aim where he does have an emphasis on 'elite' young footballers. My emphasis is most certainly on non-elite. I just want to see more kids kicking a ball regularly. Get that right and the rest of the ducks might even line up in a row on their own.

[Bungle]

Kevin's drew 3-3 with Barca in the final but lost on peons. Very encouraging stuff.

[DeLorean]

Having watched "a bit of the under 21 game", Eamon Dunphy is "sort of horrified" as to our future prospects.

[paul_oshea]

Anyone see Football Focus on Saturday and the piece they did on Iceland and the football houses? A country that supposedly went near bankrupt could still fund this for their football. It brings me back to this thing I mentioned ages ago about playing conditions and the bad weather in ireland. They have developed technically better players since bringing in coaches and these "houses" - I'd imagine some of that is down to the artificial playing surface and the speed of the ball etc. It was a very intersting piece and got me back thinking about "long ball" hoof it up I used to hear so often when I was younger.

[tetsujin1979]

Having watch "a bit of the under 21 game", Eamon Dunphy is "sort of horrified" as to our future prospects.

He also described Alan Judge as a young player. He's 27.

[Stuttgart88]

Not as bad as Setanta who called our central midfielder on Friday "Niall Quinn".

[eitoof]

Having watch "a bit of the under 21 game", Eamon Dunphy is "sort of horrified" as to our future prospects.

Ah yes, top quality insight as usual from ole Drunky.

[Charlie Darwin]

He also described Alan Judge as a young player. He's 27.

He's the new "Young Hoolahan at Norwich".

[DannyInvincible]

Piece here by Ewan MacKenna on the potentially-bleak times ahead: http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/irishn...cle4723189.ece

The success of the senior team is masking the crisis at junior levels but a lack of planning means Ireland are lagging behind

So surprising was the statistic that it required a double-take. In the lead-up to tonight’s friendly with Slovakia, Wes Hoolahan was asked about his future and replied that he’d have to consider his international career after the European Championships because by then he’ll be 34.

Part of the jolt over his age can probably be chalked down to the fact that sadly he had to wait until mid-2013 for his first competitive start for Ireland, but a larger part is down to the fact that Ireland’s most talented player keeps this tag when his body is in decline. That’s a hugely concerning situation.

The danger amidst the upswing in results is that the major issues surrounding our lack of young players gets lost to the hype and hysteria. That’s not to take away from what Martin O’Neill and this Irish squad have achieved as, for the first time in over a decade, they’ve brought a passion back on to the field that has created a genuine excitement.

Given the quality at his disposal, what has been achieved is hugely impressive to the point where the attitude and growing confidence means one of the weakest squads that will go to France should be thinking about making it to the last 16 as a genuine possibility. Yet, what amounts to a mark of their brilliant efforts is an indictment of the FAI and that must not be overlooked.

...

It’s a broken-down conveyor belt and a lack of a system that means, under this FAI administration, across the 11 European Under-17 Championships we’ve made the finals just twice. It’s why in seven European Under-21 qualifying campaigns we’ve won 13 of 50 games and it’s why a Uefa analyst, when asked to survey Ireland in the context of the continent, said we’re “not keeping up”.

“What matters at the moment is there are better players coming from so many more countries than Ireland. That must be tackled,” he said.

Ireland’s senior success, it would seem, is providing an excuse not to.

What has to be done is obvious as we need only look to countries like Belgium and Uruguay who are comparable but who have revamped how they go about the game. A university study indicated that between the crucial formative ages of six and 16, central European players get an average of 14 times more touches a game than those from Ireland — and that’s multiplied by 14 rather than merely 14 more.

Meanwhile back in 2009, an review of our underage football structures was released but the Schoolboys Football Association of Ireland rejected 44 of its 51 recommendations and it remains untouched to this day.

...

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

One word - parochialism.