Debate - Future of Youth Development in Irish Football

[DeLorean]

He's got a pretty good CV for an ex-pro in fairness.

[backstothewall]

He would be perfect. Good CV. He always speaks well in the media. And if nothing else he would cost a fair bit less than Delaney.

[gastric]

Wasn't sure where exactly to put this, but Early is bang on in this article about big clubs and youth development even if it is stating the bleeding obvious. At the same time who can blame youngsters from going to clubs when they are often promised the sun, moon and stars, later to find themselves questioning their 'failure' when released and picked up by smaller clubs. Maybe the new U17 competition might educate players to the pitfalls of signing for big clubs.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/socc...lent-1.2311686

[DeLorean]

Delaney asks the real question on future of Irish game

[BonnieShels]

Delaney asks the real question on future of Irish game

Enjoyed that

[Stuttgart88]

I went along to the event organised by Antonio Mantero of the The Coach Diary blog in the Institute of Technology in Blanchardstwown on Monday night.

It was a very good event, Johnny Lyons of 98 FM Sport acting as MC and a good turnout of coaches from schoolboy and some LoI clubs. I met Peter Eccles, ex-Shamrock Rovers CB and capped once by Jack Charlton I think. It lasted 3.5 hours!

Anyway, the panelists were:
- Austin Speight of Coerver Ireland - a private company coaching kids worldwide uising the Coerver Method
- Dermot Dalton(?) of the beautifulgame.ie, another private company using the "Horst Wein Method".
- Mitch Whitty - I think he isTechnical Director of the North Dublin Schoolboys' League
- Mick Lynam - ex-FAI Child Protection Officer, made redundant with the cuts and now working freeelance I think.
- Antonio sat with the panel, but only joined in at the Q&A stage.

Austin & Dermot were both plugging their companies to some extent, but were mainly highliting the fact that there is now a universally accepted philosophy about coaching kids (small sided games - numbers depending on kids' ages, pastoral care, encouragement, technique, mini-leagues versus season-long leagues etc.) and that the traditional Irish method is basically the upside-down version of this. Arsenal no longer even scout in Ireland because of the brutes we tend to produce. We kind of knew all this though.

Mitch Whitty (ex-Chelsea academy coach) described how they have ripped everything up and started again in NDSL, largely in line with the more progressive / enlightened techniques and outlook largely accepted elsewhere. He says the results have been remarkable already with a crop of kids with talent & technique like they've never had before. Although the emphasis is not on winning, they recently went to Manchester and won a big tournament featuring major EPL academy sides. Mitch was positive about the FAI's Emerging Talent Programme whilst recognising its limitations and very positive about Niall Harrison.

Mick Lynam, an ex-Garda in his early 60s(?) and with a MSc in child psychology was a real character. He has dealt with kids from broken homes, deep poverty etc and used football to keep them out of trouble and teach them life skills and values. Again, he is promoting a more enlightened approach to encouraging kids and keeping them engaged and interested rather than the approach we've all heard about, and educating parents etc.

I suppose the key message overall was that there is at least one small group of progressively-minded coaches and organisations in Ireland, but unfortunately few other regions are following NDSL's example. The South Dublin Schoolboys League is miles behind and is run by the head of the SFAI who by all accounts are just operating in a vacuum and nobody even knows what they're trying to do or how they think. The lack of ownership that the FAI has over the broader game is a problem and the SFAI is impervious to FAI influence. Antonio had said that he has tried many times to contact the SFAI and has never got a response.

I asked if the Irish Sports Council can try and lean on the FAI to exert more authority but the ISC has no interest in doing so. Some panel members have tried in the past, but ISC simply say to talk to the FAI.

There was talk about moving schoolboy football to the summer, but all factions would need to agree to this and they can't - highlighting the lack of control a single body has.

Antonio did a great job and is organising more discussion events like this in future. I'll notify you on this site.

i was sad to hear of Johnny Lyons' death. I last met him at this event and we had a good chat, as we knew each other in 80s UCD and were both footy and music nerds. RIP Johnny.

[Stuttgart88]

Probably not the best thread for this but kind of relevant. A pal is on the board of Dulwich Hamlets FC in south London.

This article was in today's Observer.

http://www.theguardian.com/global/20...share_btn_link

[DeLorean]

Irish Footballers in the EPL 1992-2015


Republic Of Ireland footballers in the EPL


Compared to Scotland, Wales & Northern Ireland

[SkStu]

that's a really interesting statistic. I would have assumed that our numbers would be way down vs the early 90's. Kind of calls the argument that we "don't have the players" into question. I understand that people might retort with the point that we don't have as many players playing with the top teams as we did in the 90's but neither do England to be perfectly frank.

[Charlie Darwin]

You could probably also make a case that the non-top teams are better than they were before so it's not like all our players are a league below.

[DeLorean]

I understand that people might retort with the point that we don't have as many players playing with the top teams as we did in the 90's but neither do England to be perfectly frank.

England still have an awful lot of players playing for the top clubs to be fair. I know they flirt with the likes of Austin and Vardy these times but this was their most recent team in their qualifying group:

• 01 Hart
• 02 Jones (Lallana - 45' )
• 05 Cahill
• 06 Smalling
• 03 Gibbs
• 04 Henderson
• 07 Wilshere
• 08 Delph (Clyne - 85' )
• 11 Townsend (Walcott - 74' )
• 10 Rooney
• 09 Sterling

Including the used substitutes only Delph plays for a side outside what I would consider 'the big six' of Chelsea, Manchester United, Manchester City, Arsenal, Liverpool & Tottenham, although Clyne was with Southampton at the time. They have the likes of Jagielka and Barkley who often start as well and Everton should probably be the next best in England. Our stand out players (on paper at least) are the Everton contingent.

Looking at that team sheet though it's kind of surprising that they've so many (relatively) average players playing with the top clubs, it's easy to understand the English clubs recent Champions League performances in that context.

[Charlie Darwin]

Bit harsh on Delph - hasn't had much of a chance to impress for Man City but to say he doesn't play at all...

[DeLorean]

Jesus I actually forgot about the u-turn!

[DannyInvincible]

Both of you (DeLorean and SkStu) are correct in your respective ways of looking at it. Most of England's regularly-selected senior international players still play for the top teams, but I think it's also accurate to say that Hodgson/the FA have fewer English players from whom to choose at those big clubs nowadays compared to the choice that England managers might have had from those same clubs in former days. Proportionately, England now have fewer players at the bigger clubs now.

Years ago, England had the option of players like Andy Cole, Robbie Fowler, Ray Parlour or Dennis Wise at the big clubs. That's just a few names straight off the top of my head, but would it be fair to say they were never anything more than peripheral (excess) players for England, whilst the fewer regular English starters at the bigger clubs now are invariably pivotal to the international side's fortunes?

[tetsujin1979]

Stephen Hunt on academy stars not making it as professionals: http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...-31487838.html

[tetsujin1979]

Interview with Rudd Dokter about the player development plan: https://soundcloud.com/heraldstriker...rudd-dokterwav

[CraftyToePoke]

Interesting read here about lads falling through the UK academies into upper non league, electing more and more to head stateside into the college / scholarship system instead and some doing very well, educationally and career wise. I wonder if many Irish lads are taking this route, there must be plenty candidates after each UK cull.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/34097904

[gastric]

Depressing article in one way, but if NI can do it, we should be able to use a similar model to develop players in the future.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...-34244549.html

[Stuttgart88]

Same paper also reports John Devine is leaving SDSL for a nice job working for Bayern in the USA.

[tetsujin1979]

Some interesting facts about the numbers of games Scotland's underage players are getting in the SPL/Scottish Championship in this article: http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/35391918
The tone overall is pretty bleak towards Scottish football at the moment, but their U19s beat Ireland 4-0 only a few months ago, maybe their future isn't so bad?