Its interesting to see that the further we get away from the match, the more the memory fades, the more positive people are inclined to think about the game. Last night at about 9pm I was frustrated at the rubbish I was witnessing onscreen, and can't say I was feeling positive!
The game finished poorly but a point away to the Swiss isn't a bad result considering we lost 2-0 the last time we played them.We should be good enough to beat the Swiss at home and I wouldn't be surprised if we took a point from France next month who seem to be struggling.Kerr is a cautious manager so shouldn't be surprised at him settling for a point.Given made some fine saves.
I've been positive since the match ended. The reason for this is probably because I didn't watch Dunphy + Giles analysis until 00.30 last night so had time to make up my own impression without them putting me on a downer.Originally Posted by Dan Druff
Its interesting to see that the further we get away from the match, the more the memory fades, the more positive people are inclined to think about the game. Last night at about 9pm I was frustrated at the rubbish I was witnessing onscreen, and can't say I was feeling positive!
Two questions. Would you have took a draw before the match? If so, would you prefer us to draw with all our players playing at their best or most of them playing crap?
I'ts good to read this from an Irish fan. It has been on my mind for quite a while, but I didn't feel like mentioning it here.
"Best part of the night" ... "best moment of the second half" ...I'm glad you enjoyed the game.
I'd rather see a Swiss player spit at his opponent once in his career and pay for it rather than having this crap over and over again without any consequences.
There once was a myth of Irish sportsmanship ...
couldn't agree more!
Pity there was never one about the Swiss.
Hakin Yakin proved the Swiss level of sportsmanship last night.
Scumbag.
Funnily enough I though Brady, Giles and Dunphy were harder on them half time, when I was fairly happy.Originally posted by eirebhoy
Two questions. Would you have took a draw before the match? If so, would you prefer us to draw with all our players playing at their best or most of them playing crap?
I would have taken a 1-1 before the match, however what bugged me was the sheer incompetence of the performance in the second half..every time they got the ball it went out for a throw, tempers were flaring, and the Swiss were allowed back into the match as the Irish were so deep. Luckily the Swiss certainly weren't at the top of their game either..I just feel we can do a lot better and who knows..we might end up in 2nd place going into the playoffs and rue not winning this match of beating the Cypriots by more the 3 goals.
We'll have to up the performance against a side in better form than the Swiss last night, or we might find ourselves getting embarrassed.
Not to sound arrogant but I don't see why. Looking at our players we simply have a better team, I'm sorry if that's arrogant but that's my honest assesment after looking at both teams players. We should be able to beat teams like Switzerland, I mean I know it's meaningless and all but they're what, 50 places behind us in the world rankings? Maybe slightly less but they're far behind us anyway. If we'd actually played to our potential we should have beaten this side, we nearly did and when we played absolute garbage ffs. We should beat these at home, if we don't questions have to be asked of Kerr, simple as that.
I know we were away from home but our own garbage away record can't be used to justify more rubbish away performances. I don't see the logic there. If the manager can't get the players to perform in away matches than that's his problem, he can't just say well we have a crap away record anyway.
In Euro 2004 the Swiss didnt play that badly per say, granted their football had very little style. But against a decent Croatia they got a 0-0, depsite having Burnt Arse sent off early on - not a bad result. They were pretty shoddy against the English (although from what I remember they had a decent opening 15 mins or so), as the game went on they just sort of gave up pretty badly. Against the French (their last match) they were ok in parts. Overall I'd say they had two average games and one stinker, which isnt that bad in the grand scheme of things - Similar to the Spanish and Germans.
Practically everyone does it nowadays (and has done for 20 years) yer man Yakin is an expert at it, actually the pair of them are.
Myths are not worth very much in the present.
Could you be a bit more specific about Yakin? I'll watch the replay of the game over the weekend, I'd like to know what I have to look out for.
How often have you seen them play?
Even if they do/did, we wouldn't think of idolizing them for this reason.
Hey, come on Volltreffer. I just thought it was funny hearing on TV a true blue Dub in a broad Dublin accent trying to wind up his opponent, as if it'd have any effect. I think you're being a bit naive if you don't think your lads do the same. Murat Yakin was at it all night. It's just it wasn't right beside the TV microphone. For me the Kavanagh incident was a funny TV moment, the only light moment in what for me was a tense game.
I don't know what you mean by "over & over again without any consequences" either and think you're over-reacting big time. And please don't tell me that gobbing on a player (even if he is English!) from behind and then denying any knowledge of it and lying to his bosses is in the same league as two decent Irish fans having a laugh over the internet over a bit of sledging. In fact one of the funniest sports stories I ever heard involved two cricketers winding each other up in an Australia vs India test match.
For what it's worth I think you're a decent footy team with a great ground & great fans and I'd have loved to have been there. Hakin Yakin is a fine player and if you check my previous posts I've been nothing but respectful of your team.
Personally i think it's six of one and half a dozen of the other. We haven't done ourselves any favours by reacting to arrogance with exactly the same thing. All i know is that there hasn't been so much ill feeling between our side and another team in a long time.
I take your point on the Kavanagh thing but you should look to home too. Yakin kicking the ball in touch right in the corner and then pressing up on it when we had kicked the ball out for treatment to a Swiss player was particularly nice.
While impressed with them as players, I'm very much unimpressed by the Yakin Brothers and Frei as people.
Volltreffer, take note.
Agree 100%
We all must remember that this is just the second game of a 10 game marathon. Also this was most likely the third most difficult game for these qualifiers (the two France games being tougher). It's the results that count. We got a result and I think that the Swiss should be more unhappy now that they have 5 away and only 3 home games left. We also know that the Swiss will drop points along the way against the likes of Israel and Cyprus as they did last time round. It's important for us that we get maximum points against Israel and the Faroes and nick a few off France and we will be sitting pretty.
I am more happy that we played crap with a number of players (robbie, keano, duff) not 100% and got a point than play great and lose.
Last edited by Metrostars; 09/09/2004 at 1:48 PM.
"Jacques Santini...will be greeted in every dugout of the country by "one-nil, one-nil" - Clive Tyldsley, 89th minute of France-England June 13, 2004.
"Ooooohhhh Nooooooo" Bobby Robson 91st minute.
Saw them play a couple of times in the Champions League 2 years ago for Basel vs Man Utd and Basel vs Liverpool, also Euro 2004 saw the first 2 Swiss games at Euro 2004 think Hakan played in both of them. Every time ive seen him he's struck me as a very lippy player. He always seems to be complaining to refs about something or another, yet he's not the cleanest player in your side when it comes to fair play.
He's a skillfull player but I think he has a big attitude problem, comes across as thinking he's above everyone else. I remember he was supposed to move to PSG last year, but they told him not to have an operation at the start of the season - just after he signed for them he went ahead and had it, so the PSG management sacked him. That was a bit unprofessional, if an employer tells their employees not to do something and they go ahead and do it - well its just silly. Didnt his brother have similar problems with Fenerbaché or some other Turkish Club ?
We dont idolise Kav for swearing, we (well I) admire him because when he came on he looked like the only player on our side that wanted to win, plus he actually stood up to Hakan Yakin and told him he was prat (which most of our fans thought anyway). I dont have a huge problem with people swearing anyway, im pretty sure most people have done it in the heat of the moment, im not sure you could say the same about spitting at people tho (IMO actually spitting at someone is worse that swearing).
The "myth of fair play" only extends so far -there was a fair bit of a grudge between our two teams anyway. The Swiss side is probably (apart from the English) one of the sides we most want to beat for recent history-of-football reasons as it were, and as such the contest was bound to see incidents of players not keeping their cool.
Not the best but they'll have to do for now:
http://homepage.eircom.net/~gearoidw01/kav.3gp
http://homepage.eircom.net/~gearoidw01/kav1.3gp
Don't worry, I'm not.
It's the "lying to his bosses" thing that I can't agree with. I saw and heard those bosses make their statements on TV. They were about as poor liars as Frei was.
With my remark about sportsmanship I exclusively referred to the players and in no way to the fans.
Did I question that?
I'm still wondering where the arrogance thing is coming from. On Irish forums I read things Swiss players and officials are reported to have said that I've never heard in Switzerland - such as "we would even beat them playing with our wrong foot" or something like that. That's simply unimaginable.
It's the Kavanagh thing that I was thinking of in the first place.
I must have missed that, will sure have a look at it.
I remember last year when the Swiss kicked the ball out for some good reason and the Irish didn't give it back. I find this kind of thing extremely shameful, no matter who does it. I remember that many people were really disappointed with the Irish team because of that incident.
I have less problems with players complaining to the ref, it's the ref's job to deal with that. For me there is a difference between swearing in the heat of the moment and systematically insulting an opponent. Where you draw the line is probably an individual thing.
My "problem" (
You're right about Murat, in spite of his Turkish descent he never managed to feel at ease in Turkey. The Yakins don't seem to fare well away from home. As to the PSG story, mistakes were made on both sides. You should know that the French are often extremely arrogant towards the "little Swiss" as they loke to call us. The medical staff at FC Basel was shocked when they heard how Yakin was expected to train with his groin problems, and they sure knew a lot about his health condition - and believe me, FC Basel has a high-class medical team.
Anyway, Hakan is not a clever person off the pitch and he's listening to the wrong people.
To be fair, I remember that.You can't miss Hakan Yakin kicking it into touch. The ref took exception to it much to Yakin's displeasure.
I think a great deal of the bad blood has come from these comments attributed to the Swiss players and media about how rubbish the Irish are. I have to say not all of these have come from less reputable members of the press but you know Swiss public opinion better than me. To think you are so much better than us that a victory last night was a formality is misguided but we have at least in recent times been just as arrogant with regards to your team's ability. To be honest there is very little separating us in standard on all the evidence. Both very good at home and mediocre away.
That about sums it up.
Personally I haven't particularly read any disrespectful quotes attributed to the Swiss regarding us, neither does there seem to have been many posted on this forum.
This whole 'grudge' match thing is totally over the top IMHO. We were beaten fairly and squarely, both home and away by the swiss in the euro qualifiers and this is an opportunity for us to reverse those results. Thats it, no bad tackles, no cheating, no previous injustices have turned this into a grudge match it was just a chance to make ammends.
Some of the crap posted on these threads is ridiculous. I'd banker that the return leg in Dublin is just as close and tense as last night, there is not much between us - FACT - to think anything else is dillusional.
I thought you were off the drink Ronnie?
"No, I drink to help me mind my own business....can I get you one? (c) Ronnie Drew
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