Read it and weep....Trap stays!

[TrapAPony]

I wouldn't be to sure about that. Have you seen Reading defend this season?

Have you seen Toronto in the MLS?

Hopefully Shane Duffy can make the breakthrough soon also

[Charlie Darwin]

If people were annoyed about O'Dea's clumsy performance and penalty concession against Germany, the last person they should be advocating is Ciaran Clark.

[paul_oshea]

But Kerr had that group, and he blew it. Switzerland were there to be beaten in 04/05, particularly at home, and the less said about the Israel games the better.

We'd have drawn at least twice in the four games against Armenia and Macedonia with Kerr at the helm.

Israel are and were a cut above Macedonia and Armenia. They held france iirc out in israel and had lost at home only once in 10 years or something like around the time we played them. I like the way people compare apples and oranges and use different rating instruments for their arguments when it suits them.

Btw kerr is more than just bitter with what happened him, I think he feels the way he was treated by the media, means he takes the mantle and uses it to bash every other manager after him - if they treated me like that then i'm going to treat them just like that and worse.

[Spudulika]

POS - you're right regarding Brian Kerr. He nurtured alot of the journo's who were amongst the ones who turned on him, that hurts. They were his friends, friends of his fmaily and even though they never got dirty, you could see as his time came to an end he started to get stroppy with them. He felt protected by JD but how can you feel protected by the same man who slaughtered the man who was keeping his seat warm (the man who is now a barrister).

[geysir]

I wouldn't be to sure about that. Have you seen Reading defend this season?

I haven't seen Reading defend this season but I'd imagine they have a lot of defending to do against better teams than Toronto face
If Pearce is able to hold a first team place for Reading, it would be worth it to give him 45 minutes against Greece, same goes for Clark.
The needs of the future comes hurtling twice as fast than Trap usually plans for.

[Noelys Guitar]

Can't understand why people are expecting Trap to change his ways. In this mornings interview on RTE Paddy Agnew suggested that if the FAI put any conditions on Trap he will be off.

[paul_oshea]

they are in there because we dont have too many options. yes, some will say clark should be in before O'Dea, for example, but clark didnt always show the committment that O'Dea did over the last few seasons and in fairness to O'Dea last Friday was the first time he didnt play well for us imo. are loyalty and committment not the kind of attributes we want our players to have?

by the way, and to ruin some illusions, clarke is not any great saviour. in fact he had a stinker v spurs when i last saw him play, badly at fault for a spurs goal.

who else was to play ctre back last Friday given dunne and st ledger were out?

He was never really tested on his own bar having dunne beside him against any decent opposition. Just because he has performed ok in a friendly or in a couple of games against lower seeds, this shouldn't be the caveat to getting into the first team automatically, just because a couple of injuries. He is at toronto for a reason. I don't care how bad Clark is, and he could well end up in toronto, but for the hear and now, Clark is playing against far better opposition week in week out in a far better team. You shouldn't even need to question this.

Stephen kelly has far more experience at a higher level than o'dea. I would definitely have played him before o'dea. I would also have played Clark before O'dea. Neither clark or o'dea were used to playing with O'shea. Simply for the reasons outlined above I would have chosen him for that game.

[paul_oshea]

Well I think you should seriously consider your evaluation of our players then. We have one champions league player and two top class players in Keane and Dunne that are coming near the end of their career. The rest of the squad makes grim reading between guys who aren't playing for their clubs, guys playing for hoofball teams like Stoke or Wolves, guys playing for decent clubs but are literally considered the worst players at their club and whose fans can't wait to have replaced (see: McClean, Clark), guys with major attitude problems or suspect commitment to the green jersey or guys who are good players but only in a particular system. i.e. strikers who can't play alone upfront or centre mids who can't play in a 2.

We're in a dark place for the quality of our playing pool and it's getting darker, we've had to deal without having a single world class player in the team for the past few years, we'll soon have to deal without having a single top class player in the team which is a situation we've never been in before since the pre-Jack days.

Compare that post with IFKs post in the other thread about the players available to Sweden. YOu really only do see things in black and white.

[paul_oshea]

Only because of Trap? Strange that he was a regular at under 19 and under 21 level as well under different managers. The people criticising the selection of O'Dea are the worst class of fool because it's for no other reason than his league. He's had one bad game for us against Germany where he was at least no worse than our perennial underachiever JOS but he's safe in his position from the detractors because he plays in a league favourable to them apparently. Otherwise he's ranged from solid to strong when he's had to fill in for us and was very good against the Faroes, as he was throughout the last campaign. He was also another of those stuck on the bench during the Euro's without a minute of gametime despite his contributions during the campaign that got him there, but apparently you must think he's thrilled with that bench sitting situation.

He has had more clubs and failed than he the village bicycle has been ridden. Open your eyes and don't be so naive. Ill trust the judgement of 4 or 5 managers and copious amounts of scouts/agents over you anyday.

guys playing for decent clubs but are literally considered the worst players at their club and whose fans can't wait to have replaced (see: McClean, Clark), guys with major attitude problems or suspect commitment

You really are the biggest hypocrite on this site. The exact same was said about O'dea at his clubs,but yet you choose to ignore that in the context above....

[paul_oshea]

Can't understand why people are expecting Trap to change his ways. In this mornings interview on RTE Paddy Agnew suggested that if the FAI put any conditions on Trap he will be off.

that should not be a reason for not doing so. If it is they save a whole lot of money and get someone else in - if financial motives were behind the decision to keep him on.

[Stuttgart88]

I reckon the board meeting went like this:

JD: so that's it, we'll fire him
Board: yep.
JD: so who tells him?
Board: you do
JD: no bloody way, I'm afraid of him. Milo, you do it.
Milo: holy jaysus, no way. I'll be sleeping with the fishes before I'm off the phone
JD: come on then, someone must do it
[collective shake of heads]
JD: OK, he stays

[SwanVsDalton]

Israel are and were a cut above Macedonia and Armenia. They held france iirc out in israel and had lost at home only once in 10 years or something like around the time we played them.

Never said otherwise about Israel (although they'd still struggle to beat Macedonia and Armenia at the same time...). We still should've beaten them twice under Kerr.

Main point I was making Kerr had a group as handy as our Euro 2012 group. Do you disagree?

I like the way people compare apples and oranges and use different rating instruments for their arguments when it suits them.

Go on, don't be shy and elaborate - how have I done this? That's the snide suggestion after all.

Btw kerr is more than just bitter with what happened him, I think he feels the way he was treated by the media, means he takes the mantle and uses it to bash every other manager after him - if they treated me like that then i'm going to treat them just like that and worse.

Agree. Even think he was a little hard done by the way it went down but he'd need to take a look in the mirror over some of his Trap criticisms.

[SkStu]

a couple of things

1) the days of Kerr and Staunton were crap. No rose tinted spectacles here.
2) Trappatoni is not the worst thing to happen to Irish football. He had some great achievements with this team even if he never had a great performance.

My hope and belief after Staunton was that we needed a fresh approach in terms of tactics, formation and youth progression. We got that in the first year even though he focussed on continuity instead of revamping the squad and bringing through fresh players. I have had huge reservations about his approach to management of players, his tactical awareness and his commitment level from Squad #1. From my perspective he was the wrong choice for us at the time (though i was so excited at the time). He is not the man for the future. His faults are glaring and he makes no attempt to acknowledge or address them.

1) Tactically limited.
2) Doesnt care about communication problems.
3) Man management is atrocious.
4) Doesnt care to watch games involving Irish players.
5) Is reluctant to play form premiership players and favours players one or sometimes two divisions lower than premiership where there are other, better options.
6) Is reluctant to give youth a chance. His hand has been forced in many changes he has made.
7) The areas he did improve when he was hired have become bigger weaknesses than they were before (when was the last time we conceded 9 goals in 3 consecutive games? When was the last time we conceded 6 at home in one game?).
8) Ignores the inherent strengths of our psyche - fighting spirit, never say die, we always have a chance attitude.
9) He unreasonably and detrimentally belittles the ability of our players and our player pool. How will this help us believe that we should even be on the same park as Spain, Germany, Croatia etc...?
10) His approach to the areas i had hoped to see improvements in post-Staunton are archaic. He is not the progressive thinker I had thought he was.

Despite what we did achieve with Trappatoni and notwithstanding that i had serious reservations about him from very early on, he is NOT the man for the present and he is certainly NOT the man for the future.

[Murfinator]

If people were annoyed about O'Dea's clumsy performance and penalty concession against Germany, the last person they should be advocating is Ciaran Clark.

It's hilarious, I'm not sure if the people advocating him have ever even seen Ciaran Clark. Spend some time with a villa fan and see what they think about his reliability at centre back.

[boovidge]

But what do Celtic, Ipswich and Leeds fans think of O'Dea? At least Clark's playing in a top league, something O'Dea is yet to do.

[Charlie Darwin]

Who cares what fans of clubs think? O'Dea is a slow, fairly cumbersome defender who until Friday had performed well for us. Clark isn't particularly slow but he's very clumsy, indisciplined and gives away lots of fouls due to his poor positioning. Maybe he would rise to international football but in his appearances to date he hasn't.

[geysir]

Fortunately O'Dea was sharp enough to save Wilson's áss once or twice on Tuesday night.

[DannyInvincible]

I think O'Dea has a very good reading of the game. He's good at intercepting balls. His obvious drawback, however, is his lack of pace.

[Murfinator]

But what do Celtic, Ipswich and Leeds fans think of O'Dea? At least Clark's playing in a top league, something O'Dea is yet to do.

Does it matter? Ask Bayern fans what they thought of Podolski and Klose, they wouldn't have especially kind words and yet were and are incredible players for Germany surpassing the level of players they benched behind at club level. Different teams and different systems. It's a bit redundant pointing out a players troublesome club situation when he's playing well for us because frankly that's all that matters.

[Noelys Guitar]

Just reading this mornings Irish Times articles by Emmet Malone and Paddy Agnew. Unbelievable stuff (it is the FAI so in fact very believable). Trapatonni camp want some type of written confirmation from the FAI to confirm that all of Trap's people are still employed. They also want clarification from the FAI about the wording of the last part of the FAI statement "working closely with the manager". That is from Agnew and from Malone we have what most of use already guessed at. The only reason Trap is still in the job is because the FAI could not afford to pay him off. http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...325455456.html
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...325455442.html
This is not going to work out for anybody.