6-1 was a disgrace no argument, the euros were poor and i dont for a second think alls well, far from it in fact. but at least he managed us to the euros where we met definately 2 and probably 3 of the top sides in it. do you honestly believe that any other manager would achieve better results overall with the players we have? far far better Irish squads have done far worse than what trap has achieved with our current squad.Originally Posted by SkStu
how can you possibly relate year on year improvement to what he is paid when our top players have been coming to the end for about 18 months now with little or nothing coming through to replace them? how can what he is paid compensate for the top player drain we have suffered really since 2002? there is not one single star in our current team and since i have started supporting the team we have always had two or three until recently.
what happened during the stan era brought us to the edge and if Trap went and o'brien refused to fund the next manager we would be back to a stan type manager. that is reality.
for what its worth i think this should definately be his last campaign. however, our best chance of qualification is with trap in charge and qualifying or coming close to it is actually important for Irish football.
Last edited by jbyrne; 18/10/2012 at 8:09 AM.
you have to look at his overall Ireland record compared to the players at his disposal while also considering if any other manager available to us would actually do much better. and yes, results are important and yes qualifying is important.
sure when mick was in charge he played decent enough football while getting decent results but yet every sunday it was one gripe after another in the weekly press about his managment. no matter who was in charge of our team many would still not be happy. thats the Irish football fan for you
There are more than 'a few people left' who support Trap staying in the job. Many can see the bigger picture and havent blocked out the eras of his two predecessors as though they never happened. Here are a few of my reasons for wanting him to stay on.
He qualified us for the euros with a poor, poor group of players, the worst Irish squad to ever have qualified for a major championships. This achievement will be looked on more favourably in years to come when he is long gone.
His away record in qualifiers is very solid - unbeaten to date having played some tough away games. It is these points away from home that have got us to two playoffs and a major finals.
No realistic alternatives, no sign that DOB will bankroll another appointment. You wouldn't know who you'd get next time with the FAI. Could be another Stan type situation.
The memory of what happened the last time we rushed to sack a manager a few months after a finals. We didn't qualify again for another for nine years.
His continual record over a period of decades of getting the job done, even if it's often difficult to watch.
The calibre of candidates being mooted to replace him. Arry would be away as soon as a prem job came along. Mick hasn't excelled since leaving us, Roy has a managerial record of failure and worse than failure.
The fact that we were missing half a team against Germany and there was an inevitable post finals hangover. Unfair to judge him on that one game. We have six points and are still well in the running. He now has the breathing space to rebuild.
The fact that I live in Scotland. Unlike Ireland, soccer is the undisputed number one sport here. Larger playing numbers, far more investment in the game, similar standard of players, bottom of their qualifying group and haven't qualified for a major finals since 1998. The failure of Vogts, Smith, Mcleish, Burley and Levein to qualify for even one major finals between them puts into perspective what Trap has already achieved with us.
Etc etc.
im happy enough he has stayed on, lets say we got rid of him and with the next manager we lost our next 2-3 games, then its just the same merry go round. There are positives to his leadership. OK the euros were a disaster but we qualified something we hadnt done in years. A playoff defeat to France the previous campaign which could have turned out different if we had taken our chances in Paris that night in the second half. Germany was dire last week no doubt but maybe in the longrun it might be the wakeup that Trap needed. We have Coleman and Wilson into the team now and McCarthy was excellent in the second half the other night. Yes its the faroes but as other results have proved there no pushovers at home. It was always going to be tough even to finish second in this group IMO cause sweden are a good side and have a great qualifying record and Austria are decent aswell. Then theres Germany who will prob end up top. So that leaves 3 teams ourselves, sweden and austria looking for 1 of the 2 spots available. We can still do it but its going to be tough no matter who is in charge. I dont think we would have a better chance of doing it by changing the manager right now. And all this insider bullsh1t from the FAI to the papers is a joke. Pathetic. I'm willing to back him anyway.
For me this is what it comes down to, we know things are tight financially and they would have to pay top dollar for Redknapp even if you wanted him. They will not get Mick McCarthy on the cheap either. So you are faced with the prospect of a search which could go on for God knows how long which does endanger preparation for the rest of the games.
Also, I think the Ireland job is not that appealing. Very likely less money attached to it this time round, the talent pool to pick from is not great and expectation levels are unrealistic. Honestly from the outside looking in we look and sound ridiculous at times, our press are very British tabloid like and moving more in that direction. Look at the Indo today setting up Robbie Keane (again) as the villain of the piece for Trap staying on. It's just ridiculous and nonsensical but it will stick in a lot of people's head and become the truth.
Definitely Trap has issues to sort out. It's been an awful six months. The Euros was hugely disappointing but it happens sometimes, only our 5th ever tournament and I think a lot of people expect every tournament to be Italia 90. Sensible countries that often qualify know that major tournament can go wrong, doesn't mean you have to sack everyone and deconstruct the whole thing and start again.
After Germany I wanted Trap gone too, I'm Irish, living in Ireland and susceptible to the reactions I've just given out about. But when you calm down and think rationally the pragmatic thing to do is keep him. I think he does know that he has got things wrong post Euros but at least some signs that he will change that.
Some signs are there, starting Brady was adventurous, but it defied logic starting him in a 442 team, that was set up to play the long ball game against the Faroese.
In a way, a similar logic defying decision to the role he asked McCarthy to play in his first start.
Essentially Trap in the past had the players to play his type of game, he could safely ignore whatever merits some players (out on the fringe) had. But bizarrely after the Euros he was trying to assimilate the replacements, better technical players, into playing the old defunct game plan.
He might change, but the evidence is not encouraging that he actually has the willingness or belief to change.
Do you have any references for this? Not doubting it's veracity, I just haven't heard this before and I'm wondering what proportion was dished out to the players and what was kept by the FAI.
Anyone see this is today's IT by the way? Bluff and double bluff - Paddy Agnew in Italy says Trap's sister's been hospitalised for months and there was no change in her condition, that the press conference was put off because Trap expected to get the boot. Now Trap's people are surprised he's staying on.
Seems a bit murky over who actually put off the press conference, suggests it was the FAI: "The Trapattoni camp suspected the worst when the FAI on Tuesday evening “postponed” his normal day-after press conference, originally scheduled for Dublin last night."
Last edited by SwanVsDalton; 18/10/2012 at 9:55 AM.
Ou-est le Centre George Pompidou?
That stroke was akin to Nixon weeping about his dog, Checkers, on tv when he was about to get the boot.
As a matter of interest does Traps contract run out before or after the World cup in Brazil? Just curious because we gave him a new one before the Euros too keep him and it baffles me why a contract would not include the tournament after the qualifying cycle
Its really not that complicated!!!
At the end of the day the question I would ask is simple: Is Trap getting the best out of what's available to him?
It was a great achievement to qualify for the euros but that was almost a year ago now and qualification masked some very poor performances in the group and his team selection, tactics and player management have been badly exposed in the last 12 months since. I challenge anyone to point at a decent Irish performance over the past 12 months. I have seen nothing in the past few days to suggest he will change which means barring injuries we will have Whelan and Andrews in the midfield for the Sweden game, Keane up front, O'Shea full back etc. He won't trust his players to play either which means more archaic tactics similar to what has been employed up to now.
Sweden with a selection of players currently no better than ourselves will comfortably dispose of us - as sure as night follows day. Unless of course we see a change from Trap.
His remit is to qualify this country for the World Cup Finals. There is nothing in Trap's contract that dictates he should attend club games. Some of his squad don't even get a game for their club. Look at his own goalkeeper ffs. Meanwhile, there are other people in charge of other areas of Irish football, not him. He does what it says on the tin, and his record of 3 qualifying defeats in 4 years shows that.
Brady, Trap's biggest media backer, was one of many players that fell out with Irish coaches now and in the past. But he didn't sulk, he got on and did what his coach asked him to do as best he could. He understands what it feels like from both sides of the fence. And he's a breath of fresh air in combating the relentless negativity from his co-panellists on tv.
As for the Brits, they got a point in Portugal, yet are still way off qualification pace, and 10 points behind the leaders already. This is a team that can't beat Iceland or Luxembourg, so frankly, they're not superior to us in any way. The Swedes were torn a new one by the Germans for an hour, like us. Unlike against us, the Germans took their foot off the gas and lost the plot. But they will sail through the group, and the result will never happen again.
We have won 3 games and drawn one game of the last 5. Different players have been used, different formations and tactics, but there's only so much you can do with a weakened side against the likes of Germany who can score 5 goals in half an hour, with technical ability far beyond anything our players are capable of, at the present time.
We are one point off a playoff spot with 7 games to go. That's quite satisfactory, and about as much as we could hope for so far.
I'm fed up of the "Trap got us to the Euros" defence. We beat Andorra, Macedonia, Armenia and Estonia. And in Dublin we only beat Armenia because the referee incorrectly sent off their keeper and they scored a bizarre own goal. Kerr would have loved to have been in that group.
We lost 6-1 at home. It was the biggest home defeat ever!! He doesn't go to matches to watch the players. He gets in fights with players.
Why is he still here.
There are little kids all over the country crying this week as a result of the sacking U-Turn, Christmas just wont cut it this year i'm afraid.
The SFAI are the governing body for grassroots football in Ireland, not the FAI. Its success or the lack of is all down to them.
But Kerr had that group, and he blew it. Switzerland were there to be beaten in 04/05, particularly at home, and the less said about the Israel games the better.
We'd have drawn at least twice in the four games against Armenia and Macedonia with Kerr at the helm.
Ou-est le Centre George Pompidou?
I'm usually with you on the meeja but I don't see what's too wrong with malone's take on events, though I do think that JD and Peter Sherrard were right not to fan flames by giving meaningless "holding" comments.
I'm stuck for time right now so can't research it. I read it at the time, and I read it again last week though. afair the bonus pot exceeded €2mm.
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