Read it and weep....Trap stays!

[paul_oshea]

http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...e-3263793.html

Interesting I just emailed my mates this morning saying that I believed Keane still had the backing of the whole team(given the celebration many "read" into that as they wanted to based on their own opinions of him) and spoke for them,I also said i bet the players must have spoken to Delaney whoever else afterwards.

[Stuttgart88]

As always, it's The Examiner with the interesting quotes:

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/s...ck-211224.html

Before he flew back from the Faroes, Trapattoni had indicated that he fully intended to continue in football in the event of his getting boot in Ireland.

"Sure, with another team in another country," he declared. When asked if there were offers he was aware of out there, he replied with a cryptic smile: "In another week, I can say to you."

A lot can happen in a week in football, it’s true — or even in one day, as yesterday’s events confirmed — and given Ireland’s next competitive games are not until March, there is still plenty of scope for further twists and turns in Trapattoni’s reign as Ireland manager over the coming weeks and months.

What was clear before last night’s FAI meeting was that Trapattoni was bemused by the very idea that there could even have been the possibility of a move against him at this early stage in a new qualifying campaign. He even suggested to journalists before leaving the Faroes that being shown the door after the European Championships might have made more sense than getting his marching orders now when, a mere three games into the new campaign, Ireland remain in qualifying contention for World Cup 2014. And, dipping into his own decorated past to find an exception to the rule, he was implicitly critical of footballing officialdom in general.

"I was in four countries at important clubs," he said. "I know every president and every chief executive. I know. I met only one very important president because he knew football very well (former Juventus striker and later club president Giampiero Boniperti). He was the best striker many years ago. He wouldn’t make judgments depending on whether you win or lose. He would take a decision and stick to his decision.

"But the president is the president. He has responsibility. He decides what happens or doesn’t happen. Sometime (he thinks) it’s better to change the manager because there is a problem with the team. It’s easier to change the manager rather than 10 players. In my life, this has never been the case. I am the one who decided to go and change clubs."

Nor had he any intention of resigning — or being provoked into a resignation.

"Maybe they think I go but I said in Tuesday’s press conference that no, I will not go, because we’re starting a new job. We started a new campaign and we lost against Germany, not against Kazakhstan or the Faroes. Sweden found it difficult to play there."

Appearing upbeat and unruffled after Tuesday night’s win, Trapattoni seemed to be able to ride serenely above the media firestorm — but then, it’s a phenomenon with which he has become only too well acquainted in his many years in top flight football.

"These are rumours," he said. "And the rumours in Italy are bad and even worse because the newspapers compete against each other. I’m used to this. If it was the players against me, then I would be upset, or if my behaviour with them was not professional. It’s not only diplomacy when you ask the players: ‘What do you think about Trapattoni?’ It’s not that they answer out of diplomacy. When you are a manager, you have this sensibility, a feeling of whether the answer (from the players) is no or yes."

He was not "particularly anxious or upset", he added. "Absolutely not. I continue to do my job with the same attitude and the same attention. The players are growing. I will keep doing my job and I think it’s honourable that I have this quality."

Some of Eoin Hand's criticism, also from The Examiner:

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/s...wn-211220.html

In football management things can change pretty rapidly but it will be interesting to see what the reaction of the public will be for the friendly for Greece. Maybe it’s a wake-up call for Trapattoni and he’ll start doing the job with full commitment."

Hand was Irish boss between 1980 and 1985, when the role was still part-time, and maintains Trapattoni’s refusal to see his players in club action while he remains in Milan is inexcusable.

"Going to actually see the players is an essential that Trapattoni has never carried out. As soon as you get the job, that’s what you do. I was part-time when I was manager, but I was still going across to England at every available opportunity to check players out.

"That’s how you get the respect of players and get the most out of them because they know you have been watching them.

"We all know his CV is great, there are no problems over that. But what I’m concerned about is the obvious one, his commitment towards the cause. The only time he comes to Ireland is to do press conferences.

"He doesn’t have a presence in this country but never mind that, he doesn’t have a presence in the country where all our players are playing. I find that amazing. I would like to think that perhaps in discussions with the FAI now that came across."

Yet Hand is sceptical over whether John Delaney and the rest of the board of management did lay down those ideas to Trapattoni, adding that financial circumstances may have stopped the association from giving him the sack.

"Then again, maybe they haven’t, maybe they have made this decision strictly from a financial point of view and they can’t afford to get rid of him.

"I think it should be made clear to the manager that now he has to fight against public impressions of him and that he has to commit himself more."

In addition, he is critical of Trapattoni’s ignorance of domestic affairs and says last Saturday’s decision to host a post-match press conference at the same time as Sligo Rovers were winning the League of Ireland title sums the Italian’s attitude up.

"He has been very insulting to the domestic game, culminating in him scheduling a press conference last Saturday at the same time as the most important game of the domestic season.

"He doesn’t see the big picture about having a successful international team.

"It’s nice to have results go for you, but it should be all about fostering the game here, not in England or anywhere else. The bottom line is he has lost sight of that aspect, he should be improving the game here."
My own view: criticism of his work ethic, selection, tactcis, communication etc. is all valid. Howeever, I can't blame Trap if his FAI-set job description is to manager the senior team only. The timing of the press conference was bad, but aws this Trap or FAI's fault?

[DannyInvincible]

http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...e-3263793.html

Interesting I just emailed my mates this morning saying that I believed Keane still had the backing of the whole team(given the celebration many "read" into that as they wanted to based on their own opinions of him) and spoke for them,I also said i bet the players must have spoken to Delaney whoever else afterwards.

Indeed, there was little to read into with regard to the players' celebrations after Walters' goal. The players merely went to celebrate with the player they all knew had scored the goal. Robbie was just deluding himself charging for the corner flag with his fist in the air.

Do we assume that Trap would have gotten the sack then had Robbie and the players not come to his rescue; that the financial motive for keeping him wasn't as pivotal as has been made out?

[brine3]

Delighted that Trap wants to continue in football. Maybe somebody else will offer him a contract... If the FAI are clever they'll let him go for free.

[bennocelt]

There's no way Kerr would have gotten that point in Russia either.

In 4 and a half years the only good result under an expensive manager. Brilliant

[paul_oshea]

I just read O'Dea spoke up for trappatoni and said he made the correct decision.

If keeping Trappatoni on keeps O'Dea on then I will be flabbergasted. Its those sorta players who should have no say in keeping trap. THey are only in there because of Trap. I really hope as McDonnell pointed out in the Indo today that Trap has learned his lesson and learnt from his mistakes, not just that he has come about these players by force, but he realises that if their is a pressing player knocking on the door and playing PL against subone who is not that good playing lower leagues or reserve that he goes with the bleeding obvious. Change making way for more change.

[Junior]

Geysir hits a big fat nail on the head with regards to McCarthys post match interview. I find it bizarre that Anti-Trappists feel the need to twist that one in to something that was all cloak and dagger - you have enough ammunition to be working with.

I am happy with the decision from both a qualification aspect (we are where we thought we would be, 6 points from 9 - Some may have hoped for 7 or 9 but against Germany who won 10 from 10 last time around, I always thought 6 from 9 is what we would have by now. Obviously I never expected the catastrophic performance against Germany nor indeed the bizarre result in Berlin 4 days later but you dont have to dig too hard to find plenty of other outlandish results for other nations - they do crop up now and again).

Also happy from a practical level. Trap going, was only ever going to be reality if (a) he walked - He made it very clear that wasnt going to happen or (b) we had the funds to pay him off. The FAI dont have those funds, I doubt very much whether O'Brien wants to stump up the cash (but I dont know) and even if he did - It would almost certainly guarantee an inferior manager to come in (purely based on €package alone - all things being equal I think thats a fair assumption - New Manager would probably earn a 1/3rd of the current package I'd guess). We have as good, though probably better chance of qualification for this campaign with Trap at the realm than by bringing in a new guy.

I expect and would be happy enough if Trap leaves at the end of this campaign, hopefully post Brazil.

Interestingly, I've heard interviews with Kevin Moran, seen Twitter posts from Paul McGrath and obviously we know Liam Bradys position. - All either looking for Trap to stay or showing delight in it now being confirmed. All legends of Irish football, personally whilst we all have our own opinions, that carries some weight for me.

[DeLorean]

In 4 and a half years the only good result under an expensive manager. Brilliant

Qualification was a pretty good result. Oh I know, I know, we were lucky and all the other teams were rubbish.

[tetsujin1979]

In 4 and a half years the only good result under an expensive manager. Brilliant

and a result the last two managers would not have gotten
I'm not convinced Kerr would have won in Armenia either

[Charlie Darwin]

Watching football under Kerr was every bit as uninspiring as under Trap. Am I the only one who remembers 11 men behind the ball for 60 minutes in Tel Aviv?

[DeLorean]

Watching football under Kerr was every bit as uninspiring as under Trap. Am I the only one who remembers 11 men behind the ball for 60 minutes in Tel Aviv?

Not only is the grass greener on distant hills of the future, grey moors of the past are also starting to appear olive.

[paul_oshea]

After Germany I wanted Trap gone too, I'm Irish, living in Ireland and susceptible to the reactions I've just given out about. But when you calm down and think rationally the pragmatic thing to do is keep him. I think he does know that he has got things wrong post Euros but at least some signs that he will change that.

Thats the bit that really grates me how people naively go along in their bubble without noticing the signs well in advance. Just like the Financial crash in 2007 there alarm bells ringing everywhere yet no one took any heed, happy to ride the gravy train, and never mind those lefty-socialist-naysayers.

Trap was getting it badly wrong before the Euros started. The signs were ominous well in advance.

This just demonstrates to me that people really never learn.

[SwanVsDalton]

Seems a bit murky over who actually put off the press conference, suggests it was the FAI: "The Trapattoni camp suspected the worst when the FAI on Tuesday evening “postponed” his normal day-after press conference, originally scheduled for Dublin last night."

Agnew confirmed on RTE it was the FAI who bumped Trap's press conference. Can see why Trap's surprised he's still in a job.

Interesting section here on on possibility of manager changing his ways, particularly in regards going to games:

When it was put to Agnew by Pat Kenny that the FAI might be putting conditions to Trapattoni that he would find impossible to fulfil, such as being at matches in England every weekend and attending matches in the Airtricity League, Agnew was certain what Trapattoni’s response would be.

“For the time being we don’t know what the new terms are, if there are new terms. But if those sort of terms were outlined or suggested to Trapattoni he would absolutely walk away,” said Agnew.

“I have spoken to him before about the criticisms that he does not follow players enough and he does not go to enough games in England and he absolutely rejects that criticism. He says Marco Tardelli goes to hundreds of games every year and Trapattoni trusts Tardelli’s opinion.

“’I’m fully informed about all the Irish players’, is the way he would put it. As for the League of Ireland, I don’t think he would see that as a serious prospect at all.

“He claims that once Tardelli has highlighted a player to him that he eventually gets to look at that player at some point, even if it’s only on DVD.

“He says that there are not that many extraordinary new Roy Keanes popping up every day of the week in English football for him to go and have a look at.”

[jbyrne]

I just read O'Dea spoke up for trappatoni and said he made the correct decision.

If keeping Trappatoni on keeps O'Dea on then I will be flabbergasted. Its those sorta players who should have no say in keeping trap. THey are only in there because of Trap.

they are in there because we dont have too many options. yes, some will say clark should be in before O'Dea, for example, but clark didnt always show the committment that O'Dea did over the last few seasons and in fairness to O'Dea last Friday was the first time he didnt play well for us imo. are loyalty and committment not the kind of attributes we want our players to have?

by the way, and to ruin some illusions, clarke is not any great saviour. in fact he had a stinker v spurs when i last saw him play, badly at fault for a spurs goal.

who else was to play ctre back last Friday given dunne and st ledger were out?

[Murfinator]

Difference between you and me is that i actually rate our players (present and absent) and their ability to play the game the right way and still achieve results.

Well I think you should seriously consider your evaluation of our players then. We have one champions league player and two top class players in Keane and Dunne that are coming near the end of their career. The rest of the squad makes grim reading between guys who aren't playing for their clubs, guys playing for hoofball teams like Stoke or Wolves, guys playing for decent clubs but are literally considered the worst players at their club and whose fans can't wait to have replaced (see: McClean, Clark), guys with major attitude problems or suspect commitment to the green jersey or guys who are good players but only in a particular system. i.e. strikers who can't play alone upfront or centre mids who can't play in a 2.

We're in a dark place for the quality of our playing pool and it's getting darker, we've had to deal without having a single world class player in the team for the past few years, we'll soon have to deal without having a single top class player in the team which is a situation we've never been in before since the pre-Jack days.

[Murfinator]

I just read O'Dea spoke up for trappatoni and said he made the correct decision.

If keeping Trappatoni on keeps O'Dea on then I will be flabbergasted. Its those sorta players who should have no say in keeping trap. THey are only in there because of Trap. I really hope as McDonnell pointed out in the Indo today that Trap has learned his lesson and learnt from his mistakes, not just that he has come about these players by force, but he realises that if their is a pressing player knocking on the door and playing PL against subone who is not that good playing lower leagues or reserve that he goes with the bleeding obvious. Change making way for more change.

Only because of Trap? Strange that he was a regular at under 19 and under 21 level as well under different managers. The people criticising the selection of O'Dea are the worst class of fool because it's for no other reason than his league. He's had one bad game for us against Germany where he was at least no worse than our perennial underachiever JOS but he's safe in his position from the detractors because he plays in a league favourable to them apparently. Otherwise he's ranged from solid to strong when he's had to fill in for us and was very good against the Faroes, as he was throughout the last campaign. He was also another of those stuck on the bench during the Euro's without a minute of gametime despite his contributions during the campaign that got him there, but apparently you must think he's thrilled with that bench sitting situation.

[Charlie Darwin]

Well I think you should seriously consider your evaluation of our players then. We have one champions league player and two top class players in Keane and Dunne that are coming near the end of their career. The rest of the squad makes grim reading between guys who aren't playing for their clubs, guys playing for hoofball teams like Stoke or Wolves, guys playing for decent clubs but are literally considered the worst players at their club and whose fans can't wait to have replaced (see: McClean, Clark), guys with major attitude problems or suspect commitment to the green jersey or guys who are good players but only in a particular system. i.e. strikers who can't play alone upfront or centre mids who can't play in a 2.

We're in a dark place for the quality of our playing pool and it's getting darker, we've had to deal without having a single world class player in the team for the past few years, we'll soon have to deal without having a single top class player in the team which is a situation we've never been in before since the pre-Jack days.

Hold on... what???

[SwanVsDalton]

Hold on... what???

Extend that to Clark too - he's largely considered a decent prospect, if raw, by Villa fans.

[TrapAPony]

Alex Pearce is better than O'Dea also

[IsMiseSean]

Alex Pearce is better than O'Dea also

I wouldn't be to sure about that. Have you seen Reading defend this season?