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Thread: Shels fans look to set up supporters' trust.

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    Shels fans look to set up supporters' trust.

    Can only be a good thing for the league to have more supporters' trusts involved in running clubs (emphasis on trusts, as opposed to the Bohs members model!)

    http://www.extratime.ie/newsdesk/art...onsider-trust/

    A group of Shelbourne fans will meet this Saturday with the aim of establishing a supporters’ trust for the 117 year-old club.

    The meeting will be an open meeting for all Shelbourne supporters interested in the formation of a trust, with speakers from the supporters’ trusts at Cork City FC and FC United of Manchester also set to attend.

    Spokesperson Lee Daly says that the aim of the trust would be “to increase the involvement of fans in the club that they support.” “In many cases there’s very specific things [a trust] look to do,” Daly said, “maybe buying shares, insuring that fans are organised and have a voice- at board level or through buying those shares.

    And also a supporters trust can actually own the club and run the club outright as well.” In Ireland several clubs are owned and run by supporters, including Cork City and Shamrock Rovers. Supporters trusts are active in many clubs, and a national representative body for these trusts is in the process of being established.

    The Shelbourne supporters’ trust has been aided by Supporters Direct – the UK-based group who have helped in the establishment and growth of trusts at clubs like Swansea City, Schalke 04 and AFC Wimbledon. The meeting will take place in the bar at Tolka Park this Saturday before the Cork City match, at 5pm.
    Last edited by adamd164; 13/10/2012 at 10:33 AM.

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    Is this a reaction to the rumours rife around Dublin of trouble looming over allegedly "unorthodox" payments to players. Hopefully the Shels fans can get control and sort it out.

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    This is a great move by Shels if they can get it together. Best of luck to them.
    The SFAI are the governing body for grassroots football in Ireland, not the FAI. Its success or the lack of is all down to them.

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    International Prospect Lim till i die's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adamd164 View Post
    (emphasis on trusts, as opposed to the Bohs members model!)
    What's the difference??

    Ok, I need the following about trusts from someone please:

    What do they do??

    How do they work??

    What are they for??

    And so on.

    No wooly rhetoric or anything about the man, just solid stuff please.

    I'm genuinely interested but everytime I see someone talking trust I just end up thinking Socialist Party, lots of nerdy college types sitting around a room shouting slogans at one another before nominating two to go shake a bucket for the revolution.

    Anyway, explain please someone I'm willing to take pm.
    Davd, the winds blown, the winds blown, all of my dreams away.

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    International Prospect Lim till i die's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalymountrower View Post
    Is this a reaction to the rumours rife around Dublin of trouble looming over allegedly "unorthodox" payments to players. Hopefully the Shels fans can get control and sort it out.
    Their reactions must be slower than their three terrible keepers combined if thats the case.
    Davd, the winds blown, the winds blown, all of my dreams away.

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    Seasoned Pro marinobohs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lim till i die View Post
    What's the difference??

    Ok, I need the following about trusts from someone please:

    What do they do??

    How do they work??

    What are they for??

    And so on.

    No wooly rhetoric or anything about the man, just solid stuff please.

    I'm genuinely interested but everytime I see someone talking trust I just end up thinking Socialist Party, lots of nerdy college types sitting around a room shouting slogans at one another before nominating two to go shake a bucket for the revolution.

    Anyway, explain please someone I'm willing to take pm.
    Bohs members model (and Cork and Shams models, I think) actually own the club and thereby participate in all decisions (or elect a board to do so). Supporters trust usually collect funds (direct debit schemes most common) with a view to spend the money in agreed targeted areas specific to the club (which may or may not include seeking to buy a part or all of the club).

    Trusts usually have clout with clubs because they have dosh and get access to board members more readily than less organised fans would for that reason.

    Interestingly, (or confusingly) Bohs actually have supporters trust acting alongside members model.
    Bohemian FC The Big Club since 1890

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    Quote Originally Posted by marinobohs View Post
    Interestingly, (or confusingly) Bohs actually have supporters trust acting alongside members model.
    Ohh, didn't know that ... always thought it was just a members club. How long is that going now?
    The SFAI are the governing body for grassroots football in Ireland, not the FAI. Its success or the lack of is all down to them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by A face View Post
    Ohh, didn't know that ... always thought it was just a members club. How long is that going now?
    Members club since 1890, Gypies Trust about a year or so old. Trust has raised funds to address some of the bills facing Bohs. I believe they funded repair of the floodlights last season.
    Bohemian FC The Big Club since 1890

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    Quote Originally Posted by adamd164 View Post
    Can only be a good thing for the league to have more supporters' trusts involved in running clubs (emphasis on trusts, as opposed to the Bohs members model!)
    Quote Originally Posted by Lim till i die View Post
    What's the difference??
    The difference is that Bohs problems show that any membership/trust/whatever run club are just as likely to run into trouble as the relative recent success stories of Cork and Rovers.

    Far from being against fan involvement in their club, I think its always important to note that it isn't the panacea that some would have you believe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dodge View Post
    The difference is that Bohs problems show that any membership/trust/whatever run club are just as likely to run into trouble as the relative recent success stories of Cork and Rovers.

    Far from being against fan involvement in their club, I think its always important to note that it isn't the panacea that some would have you believe.
    Agreed, anyone or any group will run into trouble if they don't manage prudently, that is the bottom line. If clubs over spend it is trouble, doesn't matter at what stage or have far down the road you kick the can, it will come back to bite you.

    If clubs want to spend more then they need to find ways to generate the money to be able to spend it.
    The SFAI are the governing body for grassroots football in Ireland, not the FAI. Its success or the lack of is all down to them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dodge View Post
    The difference is that Bohs problems show that any membership/trust/whatever run club are just as likely to run into trouble as the relative recent success stories of Cork and Rovers.

    Far from being against fan involvement in their club, I think its always important to note that it isn't the panacea that some would have you believe.
    Spot on Dodge. Fan ownership can create as many problems as it solves (see Bohs last decade - but we had 110 year start on some other clubs ). Board members are often too near fans and this can result in knee jerk reactions (in my view this happened in Stephen Kenny dismissals at both Bohs and Shams). Can anybody say Pats (for example) would be better off owned by fans than current arrangement ? Doubt it.


    It is the decisions made by those in charge at clubs not personalities that determine good/bad management.
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    Like the Fonz. Only a dog. Mr A's Avatar
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    While I agree with the above that the important thing is how a club is run rather than how it is structured, some level of oversight from a Trust can only be a good thing where a club is in private hands. Indeed it can be useful even where clubs are fan owned.

    Frankly though I think at some clubs most fans would rather hope for the best and keep the heads down than take any responsibility for even attempting to keep their clubs on the straight and narrow.
    Last edited by Mr A; 16/10/2012 at 10:49 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr A View Post
    While I agree with the above that the important thing is how a club is run rather than how it is structured, some level of oversight from a Trust can only be a good thing where a club is in private hands. Indeed it can be useful even where clubs are fan owned.

    Frankly though I think at some clubs most fans would rather hope for the best and keep the heads down than take any responsibility for even attempting to keep their clubs on the straight and narrow.
    Absolutely, there's no excuse for any set of fans not to be active within their club. Knowing how stretched most club offices are, I'd be very suspicious of any club that didn't welcome involvement from fans groups
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    Good luck to them. An active and involved trust is important for clubs, especially in the LOI.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lim till i die View Post
    What's the difference??

    Ok, I need the following about trusts from someone please:

    What do they do??
    Whatever the membership wants it to do. This can range from pursuing a more active role in the club for supporters, to arranging family friendly days, to local community centered initiatives. The membership elects a committee and then they can decide how and what to do.

    How do they work??
    Not too clear on this one, but in a similar fashion to your local Credit Union. Every member has a vote, and every member can stand for election to the committee/board of the trust.

    What are they for??
    Increased supporter involvement in the club's operations. They can also be used for fund raising, charity work, etc. If a member comes up with an idea, then it can be voted on and pursued by the Trust if passed.
    And so on.

    No wooly rhetoric or anything about the man, just solid stuff please.

    I'm genuinely interested but everytime I see someone talking trust I just end up thinking Socialist Party, lots of nerdy college types sitting around a room shouting slogans at one another before nominating two to go shake a bucket for the revolution.

    Anyway, explain please someone I'm willing to take pm.
    There's a lot more detail to it, but ultimately if done right I think they can be the best way forward for a football club. It can get increased participation by supporters in the runnning of the club, and it can also give supporters a collective voice if things start to get a bit iffy around the running of the club. Wished to Christ we'd been able to get one going for Derry. Only problem is, most Derry folk want someone else to make all the decisions, and didnt want to get involved. Those dedicated enough in our case unfortunately don't live in Derry.

    But yeah, great idea, and good luck to the Shels lads. Hope it works out for youse.
    i believe in one man, one vote. i should be that one man with that one vote.

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    Thanks folks for the kind words. FORAS in particular have been hugely supportive along with GUST, Dundalk and Gypsies Trust. Here's an update for any Shels fans who may not have caught the updates on our boards.

    After an open meeting in the Tolka Bar on Saturday the 13th of October, a mandate was given by Shelbourne fans for the formation of a Supporters’ Trust.

    The trust working group is now looking for volunteers to contribute their time and skills to register and run the trust. Fans can sign up at tinyurl.com/shelstrust.

    The first meeting of the trust working group is next Thursday at 8PM in Tolka Park. Contact shelstrust@gmail.com for further information.

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    Just a suggestion, it might be an idea for expression of interest forms to be given out for fans to outline what they are willing to contribute, and how they see it moving forward. Very benefical info for the steering committee to use.
    The SFAI are the governing body for grassroots football in Ireland, not the FAI. Its success or the lack of is all down to them.

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    Best of luck with the launch tomorrow - your PR man's on the ball anyway to get an article on the When Saturday Comes website!

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    Former CCFC board member Niamh O'Mahony and Shels Trust member Lee Daly were on Newstalk's Off the Ball earlier speaking supporters role in club ownership and the EU project. Starts at approx 24 mins

    http://media.newstalk.ie/podcast/72565/?uniqueID=125238
    The SFAI are the governing body for grassroots football in Ireland, not the FAI. Its success or the lack of is all down to them.

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