Trap Out and/or Delaney Out

[Sullivinho]

I don't mean to nit pick either, but it was actually Dunne and not Breen that scored in Dublin also.

Nearly killed (as Sir Alex might say) Mart Poom in doing so, who had to nit pick himself out of the net. Iirc.

[mypost]

5 is the most we can hope for, if we keep playing like we did against Austria.

Direct, attritional tactics are very well-suited to playing against lower-ranked teams. When we get the ball into the opposition half quickly, it forces mistakes and loose possession from defenders who aren't used to playing high-intensity football. Robbie's second goal in Macedonia, and the sendings-off in the Armenia and Estonia games, are both good examples of this.

However, against Bulgaria, Slovakia, Croatia, Austria, et al, we are playing against composed Bundesliga defenders who are well used to high-intensity football, and when we inevitably give possession away from long balls, these teams have enough quality/technique to keep possession for long periods. We then find it difficult to win it back, so like against Austria in the second half, we find ourselves chasing shadows and being too fatigued to use the ball constructively on the rare occasions that we get it. Stupidity is doing the same things over again while expecting different results - we have to be smarter against Sweden and Austria. We need to be able to play like we did in Stockholm, mix it up, and be able to slow the game down, do the simple things right, and keep the ball, especially if we find ourselves in front. With Hoolahan and McCarthy in midfield, and Keane dropping back, this would be achievable. With Whelan in there and two isolated centre-forwards, not so much. It's Trap's call.

I don't think the sendings off above had anything to do with tactics. The goal in Macedonia didn't have to do with them either. They gave Robbie a chance, and Robbie being the finisher he is, took it. That's why he is the first name on the team sheet when he's available.

I don't know how many points we'll get, and can't forecast them either. We needed two points in March to stay in the race, we got them. It was a struggle at times, but it ultimately worked. That's what separates Trap from other coaches down the years. When we struggled before, we failed. When we struggle under him, we usually get through and get the job done.

[Closed Account 2]

Armenia's team, aside from Mkhitaryan, is made up mostly of home-based players and journeymen from the Kazakh and Iranian leagues. Yet Estonia and Armenia - two countries with even smaller populations than our own - are the most high-profile teams we've beaten under Trap.

That's not really true, they have two Iranian based players and three Kazakh based players. In fact the Armenians have as many Russian Premier League based players. Movsisyan was a €7.5m signing for Spartak Moscow last winter and scored 4 in 8 before his injury. Ozbiliz signed just this summer for Spartak for €10m, previously he had played for Kuban and before that he was at Ajax and actually scored for them in the Europa league against Man Utd. Manucharyan had spells with Ajax where he played UEFA Cup matches, and now plays in the Russian PL for Ural. Pizzelli, the Brazilian import, has played for top flight Ukrainian and Russian clubs, and Berezovsky the keeper has been playing in the Russian PL for the last decade.

As a team they have had some very good results in competitive games over the last few years, winning 4-0 in Denmark 3 months ago, drawing at home to Russia and beating Slovakia twice (3-1 home 4-0 away). I agree that Estonia are perhaps no great shakes, but I wouldn't be so dismissive of the win we got in Yerevan, it was played in extreme heat and with players who hadnt started the season so to speak (it was 3rd Sept).

[third policeman]

. That's what separates Trap from other coaches down the years. When we struggled before, we failed. When we struggle under him, we usually get through and get the job done.

Or we concede the highest number of goals ever in the European Championship Finals

[ArdeeBhoy]

That aspect is a little harsh given the opposition. But patently we were the worst team there and his continual failure to pick the best potential team doesn't augur well.

Notice that even mp has considerably toned down his expectations...

[Stuttgart88]

Serious question: while I expect Trap has the best away record of any Irish manager, does any manager of the modern era have a worse home record?

We regularly get beaten in friendlies, and in competitive matches we have only beaten Cyprus, Georgia, Andorra, Macedonia, Faroes and Armenia. We have lost to France, Russia, Germany and Sweden, and drawn with Bulgaria, Montenegro, Italy, Slovakia, Estonia and Austria.

[Irwin3]

Speaking of records. If we lose to Austria it looks like we could be on to surpass our lowest FIFA ranking and end up around 59th. Good times.

[Yossarian]

At this stage it's probably good for all concerned that Trap finishes up. I think it's no harm in having a new face in who isn't so inflexible with regards players and tactics. Who that man is I'm not sure,but the defeatist attitude going into games against higher ranked teams is enough to make a change for me. We're never going to be a team of world beaters but the consistent negativity before a ball is kicked from the management needs to be removed.

[ArdeeBhoy]

It's because Trapp's just too stubborn.

[NeverFeltBetter]

That Trap might actually play for a draw tomorrow night just to secure a rankings place fills me with glumness that it has gotten to such a point.

[Grafter]

Considering it seems to be the last days of disco with this management team, are there any tributes for Trap's second in command Marco Tardelli? In his universe "the man who would be king" of course

[DannyInvincible]

Marco appears to be as convinced as Trap that an outmoded system is our best approach and getting us somewhere right now (unless his defence of our tactics is simply an effort to keep the main man happy). Unfortunately, the system is getting us nowhere. A loss in Austria on Tuesday will see us slip to our lowest FIFA ranking ever. If he took over from Trap, isn't it more than likely then that we'd see a continuation of the same?

[ArdeeBhoy]

Maybe. But more important point is in the longer-term we don't seem to have any decent players coming through.

Whilst we all bemoan the FAI and their paltry efforts, other important factor is that these things often go in cycles too and we seem to be entering a downwards curve too.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Apologies for the source...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/foo...up-chance.html

[the doc]

Maybe. But more important point is in the longer-term we don't seem to have any decent players coming through.

Whilst we all bemoan the FAI and their paltry efforts, other important factor is that these things often go in cycles too and we seem to be entering a downwards curve too.

England don't have any decent players coming through either.

Forget the Sky TV hype, foreign players are being brought by clubs in all the English leagues.

Most aren't any better than the English, Irish lads.

The days when a top club brought a young player from the lower leagues are few and far between.

Young players aren't getting the chance to prove there good enough to step up.

I wonder if the likes of Keegan, Brady etc would of progressed to bigger and better things in today's football.

England always talk ****e about developing young players, Lilleshall didn't work same as this new academy at Burton won't either as players won't get opportunities to play and develop at first team level for top clubs.

Here in Ireland we have cut back on spending in youth development at football.

It's led to some of our coaches taking up jobs in England.

We can talk all we like but nothing will change unless the Football Association limit overseas players who are no better than what we have, flooding into clubs.

Most sitting on the bench.

People on here come up with 10 year plans, but that's pointless when your FA reduce funding midway through the process.

[Charlie Darwin]

I agree with the doc, the FA need to limit the number of foreigners at clubs in England. Their priority should be to develop players for the national team and they can't do that when Premier League sides are packed with players from Spain, France and Ireland.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Yes, the EU will of course agree...

[peadar1987]

Yes, the EU will of course agree...

AFAIK it's okay to limit the number of non-English players in a matchday squad, as you can still employ as many non-English as you want. Open to correction on that one though.

[Stuttgart88]

I think UEFA has categorised players as "homegrown" or not, i.e., did the player spend 3 or so years at the club's academy or underage set-up, regardless of where he's from. There must be a minimum number of homegrown players in the squad. This gets around the EU rules on discriminating by nationality.

In sport, he EU has sometimes allowed anything that is in breach of labour & competition rules if (a) the "breach" is justified and (b) if the breach is a proportionate restriction, i.e., it only goes as far as is necessary toachieve the required objective. So, in the famous Bosman case the ECJ ruled that although it felt that the then transfer rules were justifiable, it was felt that restricting an oput of contract player's movement wasn't proportionate, so they ruled in favour of Bosman.

Now, bear in mind that the EU is sympatetic to the so-called European Model of Sport (I have previously posted official links to EU documents discussing this concept). In a nutshell this "model" embraces the european way of doing things rather than the US. So, the EU appreciates that promotion & relegation / open leagues, pyramidal structures, national leagues but international representative competitions is the most common way of organising team sport in Europe. Therefore I think a good argument could be made to go back to the EU, citing the state of the EPL as an example and how Bosman has changed everything - not for the better and not in keeping with the "European model" - and argue that re-introducing some degree of nationality quotas might be justifiable and also a proportionate response.

Just a thought.

[Bungle]

I keep hearing how the Premiership has destroyed the English national team, but they have very poor memories - they were god awful at Euro 92 (the one that got away from us) and they didn't even make World Cup 94. Those tournaments were at the time when the premiership were in its early days and teams were packed with mostly English players.

Yes, Liverpool in the 70's/80's had some fabulous teams, but most of their best players were Scottish, with the Irish or Welsh or Australians or Danes playing a big role in success as well. The same was through of United, Leeds, Forest, Derby etc with the best players often being Scottish or other nationalites. England were truly rubbish in the 70's, while in the 80's they had no idea how to really play some of their technically wonderful players like Hoddle, Waddle, Beardsley and Barnes.

The English are right to aspire to be better, as we should, but the fact is that if a player is good enough he will normally make it. I am sure that there have been some very good young players that have not broken through like the Keegans or Bradys of yesteryear, because their paths were stopped by a Bergkamp or a Zola, but I don't believe it's on the scale the FA would state.

Too many youngsters in Britain (and Ireland) don't have the drive to succeed that the continentals or South Americans do. Societal factors (poor diet, drugs, alcohol and parents unwilling to allow their children play on the streets like they would have in the past doesn't help).