Trap Out and/or Delaney Out

**barney** · 09/09/2013, 4:19 PM

Originally Posted by Bungle

I keep hearing how the Premiership has destroyed the English national team, but they have very poor memories - they were god awful at Euro 92 (the one that got away from us) and they didn't even make World Cup 94. Those tournaments were at the time when the premiership were in its early days and teams were packed with mostly English players.

Yes, Liverpool in the 70's/80's had some fabulous teams, but most of their best players were Scottish, with the Irish or Welsh or Australians or Danes playing a big role in success as well. The same was through of United, Leeds, Forest, Derby etc with the best players often being Scottish or other nationalites. England were truly rubbish in the 70's, while in the 80's they had no idea how to really play some of their technically wonderful players like Hoddle, Waddle, Beardsley and Barnes.

The English are right to aspire to be better, as we should, but the fact is that if a player is good enough he will normally make it. I am sure that there have been some very good young players that have not broken through like the Keegans or Bradys of yesteryear, because their paths were stopped by a Bergkamp or a Zola, but I don't believe it's on the scale the FA would state.

Too many youngsters in Britain (and Ireland) don't have the drive to succeed that the continentals or South Americans do. Societal factors (poor diet, drugs, alcohol and parents unwilling to allow their children play on the streets like they would have in the past doesn't help).

Exactly right on England. It's cyclical for them, they qualify and get to the quarters at a bunch of tournaments and then fail to qualify. The 70s and 80s were no different. They failed to qualify for the 74 and 78 World Cups, did okay in 82, quarters in 86. They didn't get to Euro 84 and lost all their games at Euro 88. I've seen nothing to indicate that the influx of foreigners has led to a deteriorartion of their national team.

Didn't Dunphy once say that you need poverty and dictators to produce good footballers?

**Stuttgart88** · 09/09/2013, 4:21 PM

Originally Posted by Bungle

I keep hearing how the Premiership has destroyed the English national team, but they have very poor memories - they were god awful at Euro 92 (the one that got away from us) and they didn't even make World Cup 94. Those tournaments were at the time when the premiership were in its early days and teams were packed with mostly English players.

Yes, Liverpool in the 70's/80's had some fabulous teams, but most of their best players were Scottish, with the Irish or Welsh or Australians or Danes playing a big role in success as well. The same was through of United, Leeds, Forest, Derby etc with the best players often being Scottish or other nationalites. England were truly rubbish in the 70's, while in the 80's they had no idea how to really play some of their technically wonderful players like Hoddle, Waddle, Beardsley and Barnes.

The English are right to aspire to be better, as we should, but the fact is that if a player is good enough he will normally make it. I am sure that there have been some very good young players that have not broken through like the Keegans or Bradys of yesteryear, because their paths were stopped by a Bergkamp or a Zola, but I don't believe it's on the scale the FA would state.

Too many youngsters in Britain (and Ireland) don't have the drive to succeed that the continentals or South Americans do. Societal factors (poor diet, drugs, alcohol and parents unwilling to allow their children play on the streets like they would have in the past doesn't help).

I think a lot of that is true but regardless of England's history, after many decades of neglect the penny has dropped that technical development is very important. The problem now is that the FA is relatively powerless to implement any coherent strategy because of the clout of the EPL. However it is still within the FA's control to make sure the number of highly qualified coaches throughout the land is increased to leading international standards.

**Charlie Darwin** · 09/09/2013, 4:32 PM

Originally Posted by barney

Exactly right on England. It's cyclical for them, they qualify and get to the quarters at a bunch of tournaments and then fail to qualify. The 70s and 80s were no different. They failed to qualify for the 74 and 78 World Cups, did okay in 82, quarters in 86. They didn't get to Euro 84 and lost all their games at Euro 88. I've seen nothing to indicate that the influx of foreigners has led to a deteriorartion of their national team.

Didn't Dunphy once say that you need poverty and dictators to produce good footballers?

It's nonsense. In Europe, it's quite normal for the best players to come from middle class or even wealthy backgrounds. Oliver Bierhoff was the son of a millionaire and Gianluca Vialli grew up in a castle.

**DannyInvincible** · 09/09/2013, 6:46 PM

Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

Yes, the EU will of course agree...

For what it's worth, sporting exceptions can be granted in EU labour law: http://www.pravst.hr/dokumenti/zborn...201204_697.pdf

**Junior** · 10/09/2013, 9:04 AM

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I think a lot of that is true but regardless of England's history, after many decades of neglect the penny has dropped that technical development is very important. The problem now is that the FA is relatively powerless to implement any coherent strategy because of the clout of the EPL. However it is still within the FA's control to make sure the number of highly qualified coaches throughout the land is increased to leading international standards.

Okay so the source is from a couple of years ago but I doubt the numbers have changed massively since then ( http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...10/8688093.stm). This has got to be a major factor.........

UEFA A & PRO COACHES

SPAIN -------------------- 14,860

GERMANY ---------------- 6,570

FRANCE ------------------- 2,588

ITALY ----------------------- 1,810

NETH'NDS ----------------- 1,137

ENGLAND ----------------- 1,010

Or even these ratio's of UEFA qualified coaches to active players

Spain 1:17
Italy 1:48
France 1:96
Germany 1:150
Greece 1:135
England 1:812

http://www.soccerbythenumbers.com/20...qualified.html

**DannyInvincible** · 10/09/2013, 11:39 AM

What does the Irish comparison look like?

**Mr A** · 10/09/2013, 1:44 PM

Ireland has 141 A and PRO coaches according to this: http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/...6_DOWNLOAD.pdf

9% of Irish adults play football (including 5 a side) according to this: http://www.irishsportscouncil.ie/Res...Figures_2008_/ (2008 figure)

Using this I'd estimate there's 73% of a population of 4.7 million count as adults giving roughly 308000 adult participants. That seems high, but as kids aren't in there let's go with it.

That gives a ratio of just under 2200 : 1

Scary stuff. To have the same ratio as England we'd have to reduce the playing population to 114492- so clearly even if my numbers are off above then we're a still a long way behind.

Edit: I found a figure of "over 180000" for participation here: http://www.ndc.ie/news/school-programme-launched.asp this gives a ratio of 1276:1. I get the impression this didn't include five a sides. "Today, over 180 000 people play football in Irish football clubs and schools"

**Darklordsbane** · 10/09/2013, 2:05 PM

I good friend of mines son was involved with the under age Irish emerging talent squad a few years back (Traps 1st year) the kid passed the ball along the ground, between 2 defenders his left winger crossed they scored, his emerging talent coach told him off, later he chipped the ball over the backs head for his right winger who crossed the ball they scored again, got told off again (it's not what they are looking for stop doing those Hollywood passes) later he passes straight through the 2 center halves, the striker scores, crowd clap, couch eats the head of him and plays him at left back for the rest of the match, my friend was furious he asked the couch what was going on, his son was a very creative midfielder who set up 3 goals what more do you guys want, couches reply was,
THIS IS COMING FROM THE VERY TOP, IT'S NOT WHAT THIER LOOKING FOR, IF THERE IS NOTHING ON, PASS IT BACKWARDS DON'T TRY THOSE HOLLYWOOD PASSES, (looks/sounds very familiar just like the Irish team)
needless to say the kid never played for any Irish team, and has like so many others got so dis heartened he gave up football, this is why Trap has no players coming through the Irish under age set up, it is only when players have gone elsewhere, or come from Scotland and Northern Ireland that we get any creative players,
it's true what they say you reap what you sow

**DannyInvincible** · 10/09/2013, 3:58 PM

Maybe the IFA would have benefited from accepting that FIFA eligibility compromise after all!

**Mr A** · 10/09/2013, 5:21 PM

I see they have 209 coaches to our 141. Considering our player higher numbers they are a long way ahead.

**Charlie Darwin** · 10/09/2013, 5:31 PM

Originally Posted by Mr A

I see they have 209 coaches to our 141. Considering our player higher numbers they are a long way ahead.

Yeah but we have our own fleg.

**tetsujin1979** · 11/09/2013, 10:28 AM

confirmed, Trapattoni has stepped aside by "mutual consent"

**centre mid** · 11/09/2013, 10:31 AM

Indeed. Delaney on Newstalk with Pat Kenny now

**Junior** · 11/09/2013, 10:32 AM

dont doubt you tets but got a link?

**Junior** · 11/09/2013, 10:35 AM

http://www.newstalk.ie/player/ JD still on now......

**tetsujin1979** · 11/09/2013, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by Junior

dont doubt you tets but got a link?

FAI haven't issued a statement yet, but it's being reported by pretty much everyone on twitter, RTE, independent, FourFourTwo, various journalists, etc
only thing that comes close to a report is the live feed on bbc's website: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/24044572

**BonnieShels** · 11/09/2013, 10:55 AM

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/irish...-ireland-post/

**geysir** · 11/09/2013, 11:01 AM

The ominous sign was not putting Trap through the press conference wringer this morning.
Just goes to show that the story last year, after the away game to the Faroes, of Trap having to leave early to visit his sickly sister, was dubious in the extreme.

**jbyrne** · 11/09/2013, 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by geysir

The ominous sign was not putting Trap through the press conference wringer this morning.
Just goes to show that the story last year, after the away game to the Faroes, of Trap having to leave early to visit his sickly sister, was dubious in the extreme.

unfair. i dont think anyone would use a relatives sickness in such a way even if they did need an excuse, which trap didnt.