QuoteThat's a strange thing to see.Originally Posted by Crosby87
Israel? :O
DID YOU NOTICE A SIGN OUTSIDE MY HOUSE...?
That's a strange thing to see.
I'm a bloke,I'm an ocker
And I really love your knockers,I'm a labourer by day,
I **** up all me pay,Watching footy on TV,
Just feed me more VB,Just pour my beer,And get my smokes, And go away
Reports coming through that Pulis has left Stoke City
The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist thinks it will change; the realist adjusts the sails.
The idea O'Neill overachieved on a small budget with Villa is false. He had the fifth biggest budget in the league and he consistently hovered around 5-6th place, ie exactly where you'd expect. Still, he's a good manager and I think he could do very well with Ireland.
Pulis would have been a great manager for us a few years ago when our strengths virtually mirrored Stoke's except in terms of raw physicality. But with the retirement of Duff, Given and possibly Dunne, we don't have the players for that type of game plan and Pulis has roundly failed to adapt his Stoke team in spite of bringing in smaller, more technically proficient players.
What the hell does this mean?
What sectarian violence?
I would hate to have Lennon near the role. Can't stand the man.
DID YOU NOTICE A SIGN OUTSIDE MY HOUSE...?
He is from the North and his 'history' is well documented. But no chance of Lenny and a totally unsuitable match just now.
Think we're stuck with Trap for now and the best REALISTIC alternatives when he goes are the likes of O'Leary, O'Driscoll or McDermott IMO.
Clearly we'd prefer someone better but unlikely to get ano. high-profile manager so soon...
I know what the article are alluding to.
But I can't quite figure out where or why such sectarian violence will occur should we appoint a guy from Lurgan as our manager. A Nationalist from Lurgan for that matter.
DID YOU NOTICE A SIGN OUTSIDE MY HOUSE...?
Think yer man means up North. Not that they don't have bigger issues...
Rodgers certainly has a point in this article, Trap needs to trust more in the technical ability of Irish players, but to say they have the same technical ability as players on the continent is hard to agree with. Personally, I would love to see Gibson come in from the cold.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...-29479333.html
Sounds sensible enough and hits the nail on the head as regards what has been going wrong with Ireland since late 2009 (and please, don't mention the qualification, every Irish manager and every Irish team in the last 25-30 years would have got second in that group and beaten Estonia).
To repeat what I've said elsewhere, we need to get away from non-stop long balls to the likes of Sammon. And there's no need for the likes of Cox or the game Walters on the wings in big games.
For what it's worth, I'd like to see something like:
Long
Winger-Hoolahan-Winger
McCarthy-CM
Wilson-O'Shea-CB-Coleman
Forde
Winger: we have decent options here with McGeady, McClean, Brady, Pilkington etc... so there's no need for strikers there who offer nothing. Even Coleman could play RM, but the combination of Coleman at RB and Brady at RM has looked exciting any time we've seen it.
CM: Ideally Gibson, alternatively one of Andrews, Meyler, Hendrick, Whelan at a push though he's too static for a centre midfielder...
CB: could be Dunne, SSL, R.Keogh, O'Dea...
That team could mix Irish directness and agressiveness with a bit of football ability. And we'll need a bit of possession if we're to get anything from Vienna and Cologne in the autumn and to hang on to unlikely leads or hold out for draws. Are we supposed to go to those places with long ball 4-4-2s and get results, Trap?
Forcing Keane into the team turns us into the 4-4-2 we need to get away from, so Keane should be an excellent option from the bench if we need something in the last 20-30 minutes.
But of course Trap is convinced that we can't play football and STILL hasn't tried out a 4-5-1 or 4-3-3 (call it what you will) in any sensible way from the start of a friendly despite 3 recent friendlies. (I also don't understand why we need Pilkington to try out a new formation, this sounds like a Trap red herring.) With Trap's 4-4-2, we still manage to look outgunned in midfield even against the likes of Armenia and Georgia when they go down to ten men! And I thought you hired Italians for clever tactics and defensive stability...
We need to strike a balance. I'd love to see the manager trust more in our players and let them use their technical ability more, but at international level, the system has to reflect the talent pool available. We could play nicer football than we do at the moment, but the people who suggest that we have the players to play the exact same system as Spain, or Italy, or Germany are deluded. Personally, I think with the players we have, our best bet is to play with a solid spine of players, ideally Gibson and McCarthy in the centre of midfield, sitting deep and helping hold possession, with our quickest full backs and wingers on the field to break when the opportunity arises. Probably John Walters up front to hold up the ball and relieve pressure, and to get on the end of crosses, either alongside someone with a bit of pace, or in front of Robbie Keane, who can drop back into midfield and give the central pair some extra options.
With the players we have available, I'd probably go:
Forde/Randolph
Kelly...O'Shea...Sledge...Coleman
McGeady...Wilson...McCarthy...Brady/Hoolahan/McClean
Keane/Pilkington
Walters/Long
Last edited by peadar1987; 07/08/2013 at 10:49 AM.
You wouldn't call Hoolahan a 'winger' then...
You do and we have it. We once went 15 months unbeaten under Trap. We still have yet to lose a qualifier away from home, and we've recently gone 6 games unbeaten. So his clever tactics and defensive stability works.
If you think it's that easy to beat Estonia and get second in a competitive group, travel about 150 kilometres up the road, find a few butchers aprons handy, and they'll tell you how easy it is to do both.
As I've also said before, we Irish do 4-4-2. We've been playing it as long as I'm watching the team, and in that time it's got us to 5 tournaments. What we have, we hold.
Ah come on, you're not seriously saying that without Trap, we would be at Northern Ireland's level? We have been in the top three seeds of every qualifying group in the last 20-odd years, and as you say, qualified for five tournaments. In that same period, NI haven't been seeded higher than fourth, and have never even qualified for a playoff. Comparing our resources to those of the North is like comparing Sweden and Denmark to Iceland and Finland. We have better players, and more of them, playing at higher levels.
Trap's record is just about acceptable. We've beaten the lower-seeded teams, and invariably drawn home and away against our immediate playoff rivals (Bulgaria, Slovakia, Sweden, Austria) which cancels out poor home performances and thrown-away leads, with some decent, gritty away showings. Our record against the 'top' teams is: Played 10, Won 0, Drawn 4, Lost 6. Under McCarthy, it was: Played 10, Won 3, Drawn 5, Lost 2, although I would admit McCarthy had slightly more talent available. So, it balances out as 'acceptable' - we are not under-achieving, nor over-achieving.
But is 'acceptable' and 'level par' good enough for one of the highest-paid managers in Europe, who plays to a system which sacrifices talent in order to - in theory, at least - make us 'more than the sum of our parts'? Who adopts an attritional style of play and bizarre selection criteria, and alienated many of the fans as a result? Who has guided us to two record defeats in the last 13 months?
Last edited by Supreme feet; 08/08/2013 at 8:07 AM.
The player himself and his club manager seem to consider him a creative midfielder, playing in the middle behind a lone stiker and ahead of defensive midfielders. He'd be ideal in this role for us, if Trap ever played him like that.
That sounds like a profession of faith rather than a logical argument. Where has Trap ever applied appropriate tactics for a game, changed tactics, or changed a game with a tactical substitution? I can only think of examples of his failure to do so, such as his failure to react around 70 minutes vs Austria and his persistence in playing 4-4-2 against Spain. When he does play five in midfield, it is in a ham-fisted way (McCarthy advanced v Uruguay, or the chaos at home v Germany). Otherwise Trap does the same thing, regardless of whether we're playing Spain or Andorra – that's not clever tactics. And nobody can seriously claim defensive stability over the last year or so considering some of the hammerings we've taken.
I didn't say it was easy, it's just all par for the course for us and shouldn't be used to paper over other shortcomings. Previous managers have drawn with the likes of Slovakia and beaten Estonia. So what? We need a new approach that makes the most of the talent available to us now.
Why do we have to do what we've always done if it's not working? And in fact you're wrong – we clearly haven't always played 4-4-2. The conservative Big Jack regularly lined us up 4-5-1 towards the end of his tenure when he saw that was the way to go (see USA 94), and even Trap has experimented with it in a half-assed way (see above).
Okay, I'll give you those two.
Bringing on Folan represented a shift to Keane playing behind two strikers when we were playing ten men, that's a real tactical shift and it worked – though it is 4.5 years ago at this stage. Doyle for Cox v Kazakhstan was more of a like for like swap, a striker on the wing for a striker on the wing, so not really a tactical shift even if Doyle did have a big impact.
We haven't seen enough of this sort of thing. Austria at home was crying out for a couple of changes around 70 mins, Green on for Whelan say, and any striker on for Sammon who was knackered and not closing down the opposition, and Hoolahan too to hold onto the ball. (Instead we got Green at RM on for Long, a tired Walters pushed up front with a tired Sammon - we didn't even use our 3 subs) All three games in Poland were examples of tactical inertia. I still don't see how anyone can claim Trap employs clever tactics or influences games from the line during games.
Last edited by p2011; 09/08/2013 at 1:46 PM.
I am seriously saying it. Look at the ever decreasing standard of club football our players are playing at. Another player has moved downstairs this week. In a few weeks, he'll be expected to take on Germany and be competent at their level.
We were heading for the gstq's level of football until he took over, and we were fourth seeds for one campaign. If you want us to end up there and with their other unfortunate brothers across the water, wait til Trap goes and suddenly beating Estonia in playoffs will be no more than a pipe dream.
Our "record defeats" are to teams ranked Number 1 and Number 2 in the game, who qualify for every tournament and one that wins every prize going. Sorry we didn't quite match up to their standards but it can happen when a Real Madrid/Barcelona/Bayern Munich XI face the "best" of Stoke, Wigan, Millwall etc.Trap's record is just about acceptable. But is 'acceptable' and 'level par' good enough for one of the highest-paid managers in Europe, who plays to a system which sacrifices talent in order to - in theory, at least - make us 'more than the sum of our parts'? Who adopts an attritional style of play and bizarre selection criteria, and alienated many of the fans as a result? Who has guided us to two record defeats in the last 13 months?
Our performance in 29 qualifiers since he took over is 26 results - 3 reverses. His away qualifying record is 15 games - 15 results. Our record since he took over is 2 playoffs, and 1 finals. He is the first Irish coach to get results in Russia and Bulgaria, and the first Irish coach to win in Macedonia. This is a country of 4 million people and by those standards, it's not just "acceptable", it's outstanding.
He reacted against Austria on 80 minutes. Another 65 seconds and it would have paid off.
No other Irish coach has beaten Estonia. Others have failed to beat Macedonia, Cyprus, and Liechtenstein. Only one other Irish coach has ever won a playoff. It certainly isn't par for the course.I didn't say it was easy, it's just all par for the course for us. Previous managers have drawn with the likes of Slovakia and beaten Estonia. So what?
No he didn't. For 10 years, we played 4-4-2 and whacked the ball 40 yards up the pitch. Some of our most famous goals of all time have come from the 40-yard lump. Today, we play 4-4-2 and whack the ball 40 yards up the pitch. It's got us to a tournament and a playoff. However unattractive it looks, it's by far our most successful tactic.Why do we have to do what we've always done if it's not working? And in fact you're wrong – we clearly haven't always played 4-4-2. The conservative Big Jack regularly lined us up 4-5-1 towards the end of his tenure when he saw that was the way to go (see USA 94).
I honestly don't care how it looks, I crave results. We've got 26 of them in the past 5 years and a ticket to a championship, therefore I believe in what our coach is doing for this country.
It's looking like a pipe dream now.
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