Trap Out and/or Delaney Out

[CraftyToePoke]

Niall Quinn gives his opinion on Trap's reign.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...-29217623.html

Have to say I agree with all of that, well put by Quinn.

[mypost]

I honestly think he was just saying to himself "ah just f*** off Donoghue, not this sh*t again" but hadn't the patience at that moment to dress it up, so he just went with the first thing that came into his head which was a bit of a reality lesson to Tony. The reality being that we're still in contention and, although it could be a lot better, any other manager is unlikely to have done as well results-wise over the past few years. I think Trap has always, in normal circumstances, tried to explain why he has chosen a certain way of playing and tried to justify what certain players can bring or certain players cannot.

Tbh, it's not a big surprise he reacts, when the central theme to every interview pre-and post game for the past 3 years has been. "This is your last game. Do you think you should go? Should you consider your position?" There are only so many ways you can answer the question.

Other nationalities must think the idea of firing the coach of a very mediocre side when he's level with the opposition halfway through a campaign is absolutely nuts.

So whats your expectations for the number of points we will get from the remaining games and do you think it will be good enough to get us into the playoffs?

It's impossible to make any concrete predictions about playoff permutations until after September at the earliest.

[paul_oshea]

Its not for the last 3 years that's a whole load of crap.

You take only half the facts when you argue your case, ignoring certain posts and certain counter-arguments to yours. You selectively debate the points you want or think that suit your argument. Unless you argue point for point, fact for fact, its an imbalanced and distorted view. Actually I think your view is distorted and imbalanced, that's the problem here.

I mean this is just ridiculous:

"Other nationalities must think the idea of firing the coach of a very mediocre side when he's level with the opposition halfway through a campaign is absolutely nuts. "

[mypost]

Have to say I agree with all of that, well put by Quinn.

So how well did the going all out to finish the game when winning, work out in 95, Niall?

[SkStu]

Niall Quinn gives his opinion on Trap's reign.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...-29217623.html

Once Mother Teresa starts criticising you, you know youre in trouble.

[CraftyToePoke]

So how well did the going all out to finish the game when winning, work out in 95, Niall?

I'm not Niall.

[Charlie Darwin]

I'm not Niall.

Nice try, Niall. Either answer the question or get back on your spaceship.

[Crosby87]

Is Toepuke really Niall?
Lets see...Crafty, was/were Niall (you?) born on Oct 6th 1966, Oct 9th 1966, Oct 19th 1966 or Oct 16th 1966?

[Spudulika]

Conveniently ignored by the Irish meeja.....the Austrian players could control the football, could pass the football, made space on the ball and were comfortable in possession. Largely the Irish players were the opposite. It's not due to the coach, it's due to the largely poor quality training gained by players in the UK and Ireland where the emphasis is on hoof and run, win at all costs (from too young an age) and poor club coaching. It will never be addressed as it's inconvenient to do so.

[Stuttgart88]

We were comfortable in possession in Sweden though - at least by our standards. That was only 5 days earlier. Trap set us out to play hoofball from the start.

[DeLorean]

Its not for the last 3 years that's a whole load of crap.

You're right. For the first two years it was...


"Why aren't you playing Andy Reid Trap?, he's world class you know"

"Why don't you contact Stephen Ireland Trap?, I'm sure he'd come back if he was asked"

"Why don't you try other systems Trap? we seem to get overrun in midfield"


Then when it turned out that Andy Reid didn't even have the dedication to stay in shape, Stephen Ireland was a one season wonder and complete plonker and we qualified for a major tournament without both and with the dated system it changed to....


"Why aren't you playing Wes Hoolahan Trap?, he's world class you know"

"Why don't you contact Darron Gibson Trap?, I'm sure he'd come back if he was asked"

"Why don't you try other systems Trap? we still seem to get overrun in midfield"

[Supreme feet]

The good performance against Sweden nullifies the attitude of 'ah, sure, we only have Northern Ireland/Scotland-standard players who can't pass even if they tried, hoofball is the only possible route to being competitive'. Against Austria, Trap changed the both the personnel and the system to revert to a failed default, and we paid the price.

Kerr and Staunton did exactly the same. Their high-water-marks in terms of performance came, respectively, against France (2004) and Slovakia (2007), when we looked like genuinely decent, competitive sides, capable of keeping possession and creating chances. However, when players became unavailable, both Kerr and Staunton panicked, and instead of keeping with a promising gameplan and replacing players like-for-like in their roles, they reverted to a failed philosophy of 'get our favourite players on the pitch, regardless of position - just fit them in somewhere'. There was no consistency, no definite gameplan, and we inevitably messed up by dropping points against lower-seeded opposition. Both managers paid for it with their jobs.

I see a big similarity with Trap's decisions in the last few games, in terms of refusing to learn the lessons from good performances.

[Crosby87]

Trap is 150/1 on Paddy Power to be the next permanent manager of Arsenal.

[Charlie Darwin]

Trap is 150/1 on Paddy Power to be the next permanent manager of Arsenal.

This is exactly the sort of irrelevant interjection this thread needed.

[Stuttgart88]

"Why aren't you playing Wes Hoolahan Trap?, he's world class you know"

"Why don't you contact Darron Gibson Trap?, I'm sure he'd come back if he was asked"

"Why don't you try other systems Trap? we still seem to get overrun in midfield"

The sarcasm totally undermines any point you're trying to make. Nobody thinks Hoolahan is world class but he's a cut above most of what we have at the moment. He could play a role that complements other decent players we have and that would add bodies in midfield, which Keane did to good effect in Sweden. Trap looked a gift horse in the mouth after that game and thought he was being clever playing Sammon, as if he was a hidden gem he'd unearthed by actually bothering to go and watch a game. Meanwhile Kevin Doyle was dropped and a series of incomprensible decisions from the sideline gave Austria a needless advantage. I'm examining my own sanity because of who said it, but Niall Quinn's tactical assessment was bang on.

[DeLorean]

The sarcasm totally undermines any point you're trying to make.

The only point I was trying to make was the constant line of questioning Trap has repeatedly had to answer since taking over. It was a dig at the agenda driven journalists and Dunphy-types, not the average fans like ourselves who believe Hoolahan should be in the team. I'd love to see him start myself and my heart dropped to the pit of my stomach when I saw Sammon in the teamsheet against Austria, with all due respect to the guy.

We can't be constructive in every post

[Stuttgart88]

I agree. The Reid and Stephen Ireland stories drove me mental. There were far more pertinent issues to focus on in Trap's first 3 years or so. As it happens I'm happy to give credit to Trap where it's due and even despite some odd decisions and valid criticisms in the past, I don't think any really ever led us to drop points that we shouldn't have dropped. For example, I thought we gave Slovakia away a right go but were unlucky to only draw 2-2. I thought we were timid at home to Slovakia, but then again Keane missed a sitter on 89 minutes and I think Dunne might have missed an even later chance.

I thought we lacked balls against Bulgaria at home but in hindsight we coasted into second place. I defended our sitting off teams by pointing out that it was a very positive feature of Trap's tenure that we tended to score early. Trap likes to defend a lead rather than build on it, so if we score early we tend to play most of the game playing tentatively.

Why I criticise Trap heavily in this instance is that we blew it against Austria. Yes, some players made individual errors but: Trap ignored lessons from 5 days earlier and also from the Poland game. Trap reverted to hoofball. Trap picked and persisted with a donkey. Trap made dumb substitutions. I'm livid with how Trap conducted operations for the Austria game, and unlike some I'd have had grave concerns had we won 2-1. I'd have been delighted with the win but concerned that Trap was happy with how it was won and that'd he'd stick with the template.

[Bungle]

QUOTE=Spudulika;1680880]Conveniently ignored by the Irish meeja.....the Austrian players could control the football, could pass the football, made space on the ball and were comfortable in possession. Largely the Irish players were the opposite. It's not due to the coach, it's due to the largely poor quality training gained by players in the UK and Ireland where the emphasis is on hoof and run, win at all costs (from too young an age) and poor club coaching. It will never be addressed as it's inconvenient to do so.[/QUOTE]

I do believe it is down to the coach to a large degree. We don't have any world class players in our squad, but we do have a core of good/very good premier league players in our team. McCarthy, Long, McGeady, Coleman and Hoolahan are all technically gifted players. McClean, Walters and Wilson less so, but they bring other vital qualities to the team. In the case of McCarthy and Coleman, we have two lads that will go right to the very top in my opinion.

We have players that can play football and are technically proficient. Man for man, we are a better team than Austria (although we don't have a player anywhere near the class of Alaba) and at least on a par with Sweden. The core issue is that Trap doesn't believe in Irish players and is reluctant to play guys like Hoolahan that do offer us the ability to play a different way. His ridiculous decision to not play McCarthy in Stockholm summed all that is wrong with him (thankfully Whelan suffered an injury and macca played).

The players at Dortmund or Bayern are on a different level to our lads, but I stand by my opinion that as a team, we have a core of players every bit as technical, if not more so than Austria, Bulgaria, Sweden, and many other of the 2/3rd/4th seeded countries we tend to compete with to qualify for tournaments.

[Bungle]

Don't see what the Premiership factor has to do with anything. Norway, Finland, Bulgaria, Iceland have had players in the EPL. What have they done internationally in recent years?

The inescapable reality is that our players have limited technical ability and our country usually fails to make tournaments, never mind get the opportunity to face three of the world's best sides in it. If you want to see our players true standing in the international game, you only have to travel roughly 200 kilometres up the road to realise where we really would be these days, without one of the game's greatest ever coaches in charge of our team.

Comparing us to Northern Ireland, is probably akin to comparing us to England. For me that is a poor comparison. The North have 2-3 good/very good players like Evans, Brunt and McCauley. To be fair, we don't have a player with the big match experience of Johnny Evans. The rest play in the lower leagues or for the less celebrated teams in the SPL. Our team is predominantly a premier league based team. On paper that is a massive difference.

[Charlie Darwin]

Surely John O'Shea has more big match experience than Evans.