Ireland V Germany 12th October & Faroe Islands 16th October 2012 - World Cup 2014 Q

[shakermaker1982]

4 points from Sweden and we are back in the hunt! Just got to hope Zlatan retires by time both games come around....

[Real ale Madrid]

Anyone who doubts Keane's contribution to the team after that game is an absolute moron; some lovely creative touches and was involved in more than one of our goals (the backheel flick to set McGeady free for the eventual own goal was a lovely touch).

Ah here - come on now - this is overstating things - are you comparing the contribution of our attackers in the Germany / Faroe Island games? A more relevant comparison is the Oman / Faroe Island game. And I didn't see much difference between the two - I would expect Quigley / Fagan strike force to make an impact against the Faroe Islands. People doubt his contribution to the team because there are 3 other strikers in the squad playing at a higher level than him and he barely touched the ball in the summer. Kissing the tattoo on your arm while claiming a goal against the Faroe Islands doesn’t exactly endear him to the public either. I thought it was significant that the team went to Walters to celebrate and not Keane.
While no-one can ever question his commitment to his country - Walters and Long should now be the first choice up front, with Doyle next. Long should have started last night. These are the types of decision that will cost us a chance of qualification under the current management.

What are the chances for Coleman and McCarthy starting the Sweden game, when Whelan and St. Ledger are fit?

[DeLorean]

Sweden result is bad news for us. I can only hope the Germans remember this and look for revenge in the away game (even though they will be qualified by then). The double header against Sweden and Austria in March is massive now. Need four points from there and to qualify will more than likely need to do what we havent since 2001, beat a team seeded above us.

It really was a killer result for us, put a huge dark cloud on the night's work for me. Such a freakish result, credit to Sweden and blah blah blah but I can't help feeling if the Germans thought there was the slightest chance of it happening, then it wouldn't have happened...if you know what I mean!

In terms of the group, it means Sweden are in a fantastic position to challenge Germany for top spot. Potentially level on points having played them away, granted the Germans have been to Vienna and Dublin. It makes things very awkward for us, if we do manage to stay in contention with Sweden until the end, realistically, it will mean that Sweden have dropped a few points and Germany have topped the group before the last match in Stockholm. Not a good scenario for us all round, but I suppose there's plenty of points to be dropped before then!

[paul_oshea]

so we play two completely different games in both halves and we come away with 4 goals when we play football on thr ground and harass and push up on the opposition.

Was this down to Trap?

"Coleman, mccarthy, wilson" I rest my case M'Lord.

that sweden result is huge and one i feared. it really makes our qualification extremely difficult now.

I realise that most people won't get this.

trap was interviewed after the game, and was asked about the difference in play in the second half and keeping the ball on the ground. I thought it was very telling, he said that you don't have the experience or the game sometimes to play like this or at the right time, but thats not true because we had players who could play ball. He was pushed again about how well they played when on the ground and the difference between two halves or it may have been in the same question and then he just went "Coleman, mccarthy, wilson" and smiled and said they were very good/excellent. His smile told 1000 stories for me, it was an admission on his part that these were the players that should have been playing for a long time, and acknowleged that he made a mistake and that these are the kind of players he should be using going forward looking to the future. It was very telling - but it could be too little too late for Il Trap.

I think if he has learned his lessons, granted his hand was forced he should stay. I don't think we will get someone who can pick up from here, in a short space of time and get the points required in that double header, I'm not sure Trap can either but he has the best chance - assuming he doesn't revert to type.

On the players I think Wilson is a cut above Ward, but he also gets caught out positionally sometimes, as does coleman. I'm still quite worried about the 2 of them defensively but they offer a lot more going forward from an attacking perspective. Its one of those things where Trap or whoever the manager is needs to devise a different performance from both players depending on the opposition. I think whoever the manager is needs to bring in cunningham as quickly as possible also, get Ward out of the squad altogether, and let Wilson and cunningham fight it out.

Kingdoms post earlier, was pretty spot on, for me personally the most glaring aspect was the need for change and change quickly, something this regime has failed to do and it cost us dearly in the past, and will cost us again. If they are ironed out, and the communication problems then I'd be happy for Trap to stay. Do people think given Traps admissions that the reason he has been loyal and overlooked the obvious players that should have been playing is because he hasn't seen enough games and he isn't keeping up to date week in week out with the players playing in England? That's how I am begining to read this situation, therefore he doesn't trust players enough because he doesn't know enough or hasn't seen enough of them. Maybe thats an indictment of the man himself and the regime.

I'm begining to think we need to get Germany dragged back into the race, simply for Swedens last game at home. I think we are capable of scraping a draw out there with all players fully fit.

[geysir]

That amounts to a glaring omission Paul, of Wilson's major mistakes yesterday, giving away 2 silly free kicks by poor defending as well as first culpability for the Faroes' goal.
What game were you watching?

On the 1st half /2nd half performance differences. Trap's default game plan is the hoof game, Westwood hoofing it towards Walters. That changed after half time. The Faros did not press us high up the pitch and had not the quality to disturb our 2nd half game. I am not convinced that all of a sudden, Trap realizes this is the way we should play from now on. We should have been set up to play that way from the start, possibly with a player like Fahey in the midfield. Afaic, Trap is still ignoring the evidence that the hoof game is inneffective.

[Murfinator]

That amounts to a glaring omission Paul, of Wilson's major mistakes yesterday, giving away 2 silly free kicks by poor defending as well as first culpability for the Faroes' goal.
What game were you watching?

On the 1st half /2nd half performance differences. Trap's default game plan is the hoof game, Westwood hoofing it towards Walters. That changed after half time. The Faros did not press us high up the pitch and had not the quality to disturb our 2nd half game. I am not convinced that all of a sudden, Trap realizes this is the way we should play from now on. We should have been set up to play that way from the start, possibly with a player like Fahey in the midfield. Afaic, Trap is still ignoring the evidence that the hoof game is inneffective.

They're part timers playing their second game in a week, it was inevitable they would tire in the second half and gaps would appear. It's not an unusual strategy in such circumstances to try to rough them early with a physical game and then pass it about later when they're tiring.
But of course people will see what they want to see and believe Trap intended to long ball all night and kneejerked to a change in a frenzied panic at halftime.

[Duggie]

the most positive thing for me last night was James McCarthy imposing himself on the second half last night. i think he was the driving force. Andrews was very poor last night, he was so sloppy with his passing in general.

[paul_oshea]

That amounts to a glaring omission Paul, of Wilson's major mistakes yesterday, giving away 2 silly free kicks by poor defending as well as first culpability for the Faroes' goal.
What game were you watching?

On the 1st half /2nd half performance differences. Trap's default game plan is the hoof game, Westwood hoofing it towards Walters. That changed after half time. The Faros did not press us high up the pitch and had not the quality to disturb our 2nd half game. I am not convinced that all of a sudden, Trap realizes this is the way we should play from now on. We should have been set up to play that way from the start, possibly with a player like Fahey in the midfield. Afaic, Trap is still ignoring the evidence that the hoof game is inneffective.

Geysir, you have a b in your bonnet about Wilson, a little like I have, and rightfully so about Ward. He has been a fixture of the Stoke team for a few seasons, and I would take Pulis' opinion over say Mccarthy who is blinded by loyalty and wards 7 or so assists for oppositions goals last season cost him because of this loyalty.

Wilson is by no means Ashley Cole, but he is definitely better than Ward. But what was slightly frustrating from Trap was that he seemed to ignore this by saying how well he played. Coleman and Wilson have a lot to learn defensively, positionally more than anything, but they offer far more to us going forward than any other. So for a game like the faroes/kazakhstan or even Austria I'd be more than happy to have the 2 of them in there.

I'm not disagreeing with that assertion, I said as much by offering Traps post match conference. Perhaps he doesn't, perhaps he can't see it, but it was plain for everyone else and he did acknowledge in the post match interview that he felt before we didn't have the players to do that before. So do you think, that the players a bit like the Paris rumour from yonder, took the decision to play the way they felt more comfortable with and felt would create goals? Or do you think trap told them at half-time to rid themselves of hoofball football and adapt their style to try and pass around the faroese(considering he never gives team talks)?

[pineapple stu]

They're part timers playing their second game in a week

Actually, the majority of the Faroese team (8) are full-time pros.

Ah here - come on now - this is overstating things - are you comparing the contribution of our attackers in the Germany / Faroe Island games?

Germany aren't the Faroes, it's true, but we've struggled - almost traditionally so - against teams like this, and Keane played well last night, and was involved in and around the edge of the box on a number of times. Setting up Walters' header in the first half, distracting the keeper for the second goal, some nice link play for the third (which I think came from a throw which he'd won after a good burst into the box).

Kissing the tattoo on your arm while claiming a goal against the Faroe Islands doesn’t exactly endear him to the public either. I thought it was significant that the team went to Walters to celebrate and not Keane.

I don't see how kissing a tattoo can annoy you. And the team went to Walters to celebrate because he scored, obviously.

[Manblue]

Westwood - Didnt have much chance for the goal, not much to do besides that. Needs to be more vocal and command defense more.

Coleman - Defensively caught on a number of occasions, doesnt track his man properly, throw the ball to no one 100 times, did well going forward, showed a lot of signs of petulance early on e.g. throwing ball of their player. Defensive improvement needed.

O Shea - Didn't look assured at all, was glued to the ground for their goal, never looked to go forward with ball,, fine Centre back for teams of this standard

O Dea - Defensively ok, sloppy at times, good finish for goal but never want to see him ahead of St Ledge, Clark and co if they are available

Wilson - Great strike for goal, got forward well, some nice balls "in around the corner" although surface made it harder. Defensively sloppy, clumsy and gave away some dangerous frees, poor for goal, Id give him another go.

McGeady - Some nice balls in first half especially for Andrews and Walters chances, but still gave away the ball too easily and was frustrating. Second half he was better in the more central role, ran at tired legs and created chances

Andrews - Not at the races at all, sloppy passes in the centre of the pitch, skewed shots and missed a sitter. Horrible performance.

McCarthy - Absolutely head and shoulders above the rest of the squad at the moment.Decision making is excellent. Prime example was for Wilsons goal and cant believe it wasnt commented upon. The ball came out to him, most players would of rolled it back down the right to Cox/Coleman as this was the easy ball regardless of how crowded it was, others would of hoofed into the box, but he simply turned and picked the right pass, not because Wilson scored a belter but because it was the right pass given the positions of our players at the time. Ball retention is very good. Drags defenders forward into play, constantly looking for the ball, brought full backs into play and pressed players heavily at the right times. As I've said before, had the pleasure of seeing him live a couple of times last year and he is the future for us.

Brady- Quiet, tried hard, one or two decent set pieces.

Keane - Non existant in the first half, had the cheek to try and rob a goal and celebrated on his own, one or two nice flicks and drags against players who were dead on their feet in the second half. Can't agree with Stus comments above. Their defenders were very poor.

Walters - Won everything in the air, battered defenders, got his goal, gave an outlet and made runs in behind. More of this please.

Cox - Used the ball well when he came on. Positional sense on the wing especially is very questionable, but understandable, given hes a forward.

[DeLorean]

Keane - Non existant in the first half, had the cheek to try and rob a goal and celebrated on his own

We'll just give it to him, but we have to give the goal in Bari to Noel Hunt. Walters can ask that nice Faroe chap if he can have his own goal...everybody wins.

[tetsujin1979]

on the recent reports that Trapattoni says nothing at half time, from: http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...t-3262131.html

James McCarthy gave a positive display at the heart of Ireland's midfield as the side scored four second-half goals to dispatch the Faroes. He admitted there was pressure beforehand.

"Definitely, there is pressure on everybody," he said. "Losing 6-1 is not nice, it (the win) was great for the boss, who has been brilliant since I came in.

"This is a hard place to come. Sweden struggled here at the weekend and got two late goals. It was brilliant from the boys, we worked hard, got goals and we got a great result on a plastic pitch which can be tough. We did well.

"We always believed in ourselves. The boss had a chat at half-time, said if we keep playing, it (the victory) will come."

from elsewhere in the Independent: http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...i-3262171.html

It took an own goal in the 73rd minute to put us 3-1 up and out of reach of the Faroe Islands, who are at 158 in the FIFA rankings compared to Ireland's 28

No mention of the fourth goal, or that we were ahead when the third goal went in, or that it took two late goals from 21st ranked Sweden to get a win in the same stadium 4 days ago.

[ifk101]

No mention of the fourth goal, or that we were ahead when the third goal went in, or that it took two late goals from 21st ranked Sweden to get a win in the same stadium 4 days ago.

No mention that the World is round and the sky is blue either. Meeja out!

[Stuttgart88]

perhaps he can't see it, but it was plain for everyone else

Hey, all this coming from the guy who couldn't see the telly properly last night because he forgot his glasses?

[SwanVsDalton]

Keane - Non existant in the first half, had the cheek to try and rob a goal and celebrated on his own, one or two nice flicks and drags against players who were dead on their feet in the second half. Can't agree with Stus comments above. Their defenders were very poor.

Can't agree. He didn't get on the ball often early on - benefit of the doubt considering our passing was largely left-to-right, but when he did showed his intelligence in a big way. Dropped into space and played a lovely ball onto Andrews' head which almost got a goal for Walters in the first half, rarely wasted it and - tired legs or not - was the player making a incisive attacking impact in the second half with the ball at his feet.

Him claiming the goal doesn't bother me at all - didn't bother me when Noel Hunt did it and strikers do it all the time.

[Duggie]

robbie couldnt get on the ball in the 1st half cause we were playing long balls up to walters that werent sticking. played some good touches in the 2nd half when he came a bit deeper. he wasnt fully fit either, people that come on here and critisize him is just bizarre. and if he said he got a touch to the walters header then i believe him but it dosent matter once it goes in.

[Manblue]

Just because the swedes struggled against the faroes doesn't mean ours was a brilliant result. Given the fightback shown last night, it really shows how inconsistent they can be and not how good the faroes are.

We've made a habit of making crap teams look great for years, and normal service is then resumed eg San marino all those years ago.

[Real ale Madrid]

Germany aren't the Faroes, it's true, but we've struggled - almost traditionally so - against teams like this, and Keane played well last night, and was involved in and around the edge of the box on a number of times. Setting up Walters' header in the first half, distracting the keeper for the second goal, some nice link play for the third (which I think came from a throw which he'd won after a good burst into the box).

I didn't say that Keane didn't play well, but you did intimate in your previous Post that Keane brought some intrinsic attacking value to the team that no other stricker could have given us. Such an assertion cannot be justified when comparing the last 2 games. A more obvious comparison for me, as I've siad, would be the Oman game where our attacking play was just as good if not better than last night, against similar opposition.

Keane always gives 100% for his country, but lauding his performance against the Faroe Islands as anything other than what any of our attackers would have been able to come up with significantly overstates his importance to the team. In my humble opinion Long should be in the team ahead of him.

[pineapple stu]

I didn't say that Keane didn't play well, but you did intimate in your previous Post that Keane brought some intrinsic attacking value to the team that no other striker could have given us.

I think he did.

I don't think the Oman game is entirely comparable; it was a friendly, and this was a competitive qualifier against a team who could probably sense a major scalp after Friday's two results. I would argue the Faroes were considerably more up for the game than Oman. It was on a plastic pitch against a very organised, if limited, team. Against Oman, we just sent in cross after cross, and they were so bad in the air that we regularly scored. Not the case last night.

I think comparing the game with the Kazakh game, the difference was the style of play. Against Kazakhstan, we lumped it repeatedly - to keep it off the bouncy pitch, said Whelan on commentary within seconds of the start. Against the Faroes, we by and large passed it around (despite Whelan giving out when Westwood sent a free kick into their box on one occasion). As a result, Keane was far more useful than in Astana, and it showed. He dropped deep, gave the midfield an outlet, played quick passes to keep play moving (vital against weaker teams) and created chances. Walters, Cox and Long didn't do this (granted, that they weren't asked to). I'm not sure they could have played that role as well as Keane; it's different to the bog-standard number 9 role.

Whether he can do it against Sweden is, of course, a different matter. But I still think he can play that role at least as well as, if not better than, anyone else in the squad.

[Real ale Madrid]

Whether he can do it against Sweden is, of course, a different matter. But I still think he can play that role at least as well as, if not better than, anyone else in the squad.

That's the crux of the issue for me moving forward, and if you have doubts about his ability to perform given you feel he brings something to the team that no other striker can give, then I would be very pessimistic that we can trouble Sweden at all in an attacking sense next March.