Ireland V Germany 12th October & Faroe Islands 16th October 2012 - World Cup 2014 Q

[Charlie Darwin]

Small doesn't mean short. Clifford is short but he is strong and has a low centre of gravity. Hoolahan has other qualities but he is lightweight. Meyler is tall but that would be useless if he wasn't strong too, in order to compete in the air with the likes of Badstuber and Mertesacker.

[gastric]

You may not like the reference but it doesn't make the point invalid. I can't really remember too many other players who have been rendered "too small" to be effective either. Hoolahan wouldn't work as he is shorter than Clifford and a guy like Terry Phelan's size wasn't much of an issue at full back. Obviously in some systems in doesn't matter what height you are depending on position...that is not the case in Trap's.

Seriously, I wasn't being cynical, just messing around!

[drummerboy]

I still can't get my head around how Clifford has been selected for this squad. I can understand that Givens has poisoned the chances of McCann getting a call up. But a player like Hendrick, who is playing regularly for his club surely deserves a chance before Clifford. Others who spring to mind are Wes Holohan, Owen Garvan who seems to have rediscovered his form, Gary Dicker is another regular Championship playelr. Clifford couldn't command a place in a struggling Div 1 team. Its quite clear that Trap doesn't know what players are out there and is listening to fools like Givens. I wonder who Cliffords agent is.

[SwanVsDalton]

Trap has long favoured calling up young prospects for top teams (Gibson, Brady, Cunningham, Duffy) over regulars in the Championship or below.

Rightly or wrongly, maybe Trap (or Tardelli or Brady) just rate Clifford and think his talents are worth persevering with despite being kicked out of League 1.

Besides people said it was great the manager first called him up not so long ago and Trap probably took a shine to him at training.

[p2011]

A few things are bothering me:

If we are to start with a three-man midfield then why are we telling the opposition about it days in advance? Why not let the Germans persist in thinking they will be facing the usual dysfunctional long-ball 4-4-2 for a few days longer? Trap could easily say nothing, or say Fahey will be on the wing with Cox and Keane up front as a 4-4-2 and then spring a surprise when we kick off. Why play into the hands of this already strong opposition? (I wouldn't have either Cox or Keane in the starting 11, but that's beside the point.)

And why are we here just a few days before a competitive game against the 2nd best team in the world preparing for a completely new formation that has essentially never been tried out in a realistic manner (that is: we have never played with a 3rd midfielder with good passing/ball retention suitable for playing ahead of two holding midfielders). Sure that is just plain incompetence and lack of planning? I know we have injuries, but that is the sort of thing you plan for! Along with having alternatives ready depending on whether you are playing Spain or Androrra, depending on whether you are 1-0 up or 0-1 down, depending on whether you have injuries or not. This is precisely the "lack of plan B" that I have talked about here in the past, where I was shouted down by others saying "almost all the teams with a plan B still got knocked out of Euro 2012".

Bizarre selections aside, these two points are signs of plain neglect and carelessness to me.

[ifk101]

What you read in the newspapers is just noise. We'll play our usual formation and system. I'd be surprised if we start we anything our than (barring injuries);
-----------Westwood---------
Kelly----O'Shea---O'Dea----Ward
McGeady-Andrews-McCarthy-Cox
-----Keane--------Walters------

Keane will drop into midfield on occasion, but he has always has been free to roam.

[geysir]

Close, but no cigar.

[shakermaker1982]

I agree IFK. I'd be very surprised if the Trap ditched his beloved 4-4-2.

We really are in for a world of pain Friday.

[ArdeeBhoy]

What's our record home defeat?

Remember 1-4 v.Danmark, was it?

[paul_oshea]

Trap has long favoured calling up young prospects for top teams (Gibson, Brady, Cunningham, Duffy) over regulars in the Championship or below.

Rightly or wrongly, maybe Trap (or Tardelli or Brady) just rate Clifford and think his talents are worth persevering with despite being kicked out of League 1.

Besides people said it was great the manager first called him up not so long ago and Trap probably took a shine to him at training.

Why do you think that is? He has called up young prospects for top teams that is? Its pretty obvious. It happened with Cunningham too, but why hasn't he been called up since?

[SwanVsDalton]

Why do you think that is? He has called up young prospects for top teams that is? Its pretty obvious. It happened with Cunningham too, but why hasn't he been called up since?

I think he calls them up because he's told they're good prospects by various people (Brady, Tardelli, Alex Ferguson I think had a hand in Gibson becoming a fixture).

Out of the four examples - Gibson, Brady, Cunningham, Duffy - none of them have been a waste of time or a bad call. So he's hardly off base.

Cunningham's being injured for approximately 80 per cent of the time he hasn't been called up, while Ward and Wilson have emerged for the LB spot. He'd have been called up more if he was available more when we wern't preparing for a major tournament.

[SwanVsDalton]

And why are we here just a few days before a competitive game against the 2nd best team in the world preparing for a completely new formation that has essentially never been tried out in a realistic manner (that is: we have never played with a 3rd midfielder with good passing/ball retention suitable for playing ahead of two holding midfielders). Sure that is just plain incompetence and lack of planning? I know we have injuries, but that is the sort of thing you plan for! Along with having alternatives ready depending on whether you are playing Spain or Androrra, depending on whether you are 1-0 up or 0-1 down, depending on whether you have injuries or not. This is precisely the "lack of plan B" that I have talked about here in the past, where I was shouted down by others saying "almost all the teams with a plan B still got knocked out of Euro 2012".

The lack of a back-up plan is by far the most damning indictment of the current manager for me. So frustrating.

[Serb]

What's our record home defeat? Remember 1-4 v.Danmark, was it?

We've certainly lost by more in friendlies at home. In recent times, we lost 4-0 vs Holland in 2006 during the Staunton era. We suffered a 5-0 friendly defeat versus Spain in Dalymount in 1931. As for competitive losses, we lost to Denmark 4-1 in a World Cup Qualifier in 1985 as you say. We also lost 4-1 to Austria in 1971 at Dalymount in a European Championship qualifier.

Germany are certainly capable of besting those records, but I can't see it happening.

[geysir]

Why do you think that is? He has called up young prospects for top teams that is? Its pretty obvious. It happened with Cunningham too, but why hasn't he been called up since?

Cunningham was called up for one friendly and used in the next 3 after that, before he broke his leg. How does that relate to Clifford's call up, if you are insinuating that it's a waste?
He certainly deserves another squad call up (soon) if he has established himself at LB with Bristol City.

I don't see any big deal with calling up a prospect like Clifford, it doesn't mean he's ahead in the queue. Germany are traveling with just 20 players in their squad.

[paul_oshea]

No, Cunningham has been doing very well for Bristol City, but he has fallen off the radar since he has left City, that's what I'm insinuating.

The point is, back to the age old question of Trap and looking at players, he makes assumptions, based on what he hears and the stature of the club that a player is at rather than knowing anything about the player himself.

[IsMiseSean]

Isn't Cunningham out for a few months with an injury he picked up lately?

[PatJR]

The point is, back to the age old question of Trap and looking at players, he makes assumptions, based on what he hears and the stature of the club that a player is at rather than knowing anything about the player himself.

And how do you know he is not keeping tabs on Cunningham? Unless you've watched Bristol City regularly what is your basis for the high praise of Cunningham. Has he done enough to oust an experienced Ward or EPL level Wilson? As for the stature of a club Trap couldn't care less, Paul Green (Derby\Unattched) is just one example. Trap like most managers knows the type of player he wants and the club has nothing to do with it.

[SwanVsDalton]

No, Cunningham has been doing very well for Bristol City, but he has fallen off the radar since he has left City, that's what I'm insinuating.

There's context though. Cunningham only came back to first team action last October after ten months or so out injured. At the time we were at the business end of a campaign, with a reasonably settled team and squad going for qualification.

Then, having qualified, it wasn't on the cards for someone who didn't really feature to get in the squad unless (ala McClean) they were tearing it up in the Prem.

Moreover we have options at LB we didn't have when Cunningham was first called on by Trap (Ward, Wilson, even Clark).

This doesn't point towards any deficient selection policy - just a player who was unlucky with injuries and usurped by established Premier League players.

The point is, back to the age old question of Trap and looking at players, he makes assumptions, based on what he hears and the stature of the club that a player is at rather than knowing anything about the player himself.

Plenty of players called up who don't fit that description. Like unglamorous Damien Delaney, who for a period was Trap's favourite player to call in during a LB crisis.

Sure Trap's player knowledge could be better, but it's never struck me he's picked people based on clubs - more he's picked people based on familiarity regardless of clubs.

[SwanVsDalton]

Isn't Cunningham out for a few months with an injury he picked up lately?

Yup ruptured his ankle tendon at the end of September. Two month layoff.

[geysir]

Damien Delaney, who for a period was Trap's favourite player to call in during a LB crisis.

Crisis? What crisis?