Ireland V Germany 12th October & Faroe Islands 16th October 2012 - World Cup 2014 Q

[Charlie Darwin]

All these withdrawals could be a win win for Trapatoni, especially if end up losing by 2 or more goals.

While I have no doubt Trap would use something like that as proof of his selection policy, he would still prefer to be proved wrong.

[paul_oshea]

Well not really CD, because for the bigger picture, a loss against Germany is not a bad scenario at all, especially if that scenario is having played what he believes is the 2nd string.

Our qualification doesn't come down to losing the game against Germany on Friday, so a loss with what he regards as players who are either not ready or dont fit the system, relieves a lot of pressure, and can be used as leverage once again against the media and everyone else, and a stopper to change be that the system/tactics/players.

[geysir]

I suppose a nil-all draw in a 50/50 game would have us very satisfied. Those were heady days under Stan.

[Charlie Darwin]

Well not really CD, because for the bigger picture, a loss against Germany is not a bad scenario at all, especially if that scenario is having played what he believes is the 2nd string.

Our qualification doesn't come down to losing the game against Germany on Friday, so a loss with what he regards as players who are either not ready or dont fit the system, relieves a lot of pressure, and can be used as leverage once again against the media and everyone else, and a stopper to change be that the system/tactics/players.

You seriously think Trap cares about pressure from the media? He came out of the Euros with the worst record ever by a competing side and still insisted he made all the right calls. Apart from occasionally getting exasperated in press conferences, all he actually cares about is qualifying and he'll do it whatever way he likes and he's not going to welcome a loss just to prove wrong some journalists whose opinions he doesn't rate to begin with.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Germany are such a qualification machine, that a loss wouldn't even draw that much criticism from me, as long as there is some measure of positive stuff to take away from the game. A Moscow-esque performance with a lot of luck could get a draw, and I would be ecstatic.

[paul_oshea]

Ilkay Gündogan is missing as well now.

They are still not sure about muller due to his eye injury.

[DannyInvincible]

McClean has been ruled out due to hip injury: http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/inter...germany-clash/

James McClean has been ruled out of Ireland’s clash with Germany due to an injury picked up over the weekend.

The Sunderland winger picked up a hip injury in Saturday’s 3-0 defeat to Sunderland despite playing the entire 90 minutes for Martin O’Neill’s side.

A spokesman for the Football Association of Ireland said: "The results of James McClean's scan this morning in Sunderland showed a grade one hip flexor strain which will certainly rule him out for the Germany match and may exclude him for the Faroe Islands.

"McClean will remain at his club to receive treatment."

[paul_oshea]

You seriously think Trap cares about pressure from the media? He came out of the Euros with the worst record ever by a competing side and still insisted he made all the right calls. Apart from occasionally getting exasperated in press conferences, all he actually cares about is qualifying and he'll do it whatever way he likes and he's not going to welcome a loss just to prove wrong some journalists whose opinions he doesn't rate to begin with.

I dont think he cares about the media but what they stir up indirectly effects him. IF the players start to take notice and the fans and the whole country eventually JD and the FAI posse take notice and his position becomes untenable, either through resignation or a pay-off*.

I'm aware of the FAIs circumstance, but this is under normal circumstance.

[Charlie Darwin]

I dont think he cares about the media but what they stir up indirectly effects him. IF the players start to take notice and the fans and the whole country eventually JD and the FAI posse take notice and his position becomes untenable, either through resignation or a pay-off*.

I'm aware of the FAIs circumstance, but this is under normal circumstance.

The fans have been against him since the first campaign - he's weathered that storm already. The players' only gripe is that he doesn't give enough of the fringe players a chance. His position won't become untenable because frankly he's achieved more than could have been expected, even if he has failed to restore the kind of champagne football we played under Brian Kerr and Steve Staunton.

[paul_oshea]

You are only as good as your last game so to speak CD, and his last games haven't been very good.

You cant live off reputation for ever.

[Murfinator]

I suppose a nil-all draw in a 50/50 game would have us very satisfied. Those were heady days under Stan.

In fairness given the situation of that match a draw qualified Germany whereas we needed to win to stay alive, they just happily took the draw and why wouldn't they.

[SkStu]

The fans have been against him since the first campaign - he's weathered that storm already. The players' only gripe is that he doesn't give enough of the fringe players a chance. His position won't become untenable because frankly he's achieved more than could have been expected, even if he has failed to restore the kind of champagne football we played under Brian Kerr and Steve Staunton.

Sorry but that's garbage.

His popularity with fans is at an all time low. He actively alienates players. The players gripe about his communication, tactics, mentaliteeee, stubbornness, selections and in fact the last thing they complain about is him not giving fringe players a chance.

The only reason his position will not become untenable is because it would cost the FAI too much to acknowledge that. I can't wait until he is gone to be honest.

[Charlie Darwin]

You are only as good as your last game so to speak CD, and his last games haven't been very good.

You cant live off reputation for ever.

I'll give you the Kazakhstan game but at the Euros we were just outclassed by classier footballers.

Sorry but that's garbage.

His popularity with fans is at an all time low. He actively alienates players. The players gripe about his communication, tactics, mentaliteeee, stubbornness, selections and in fact the last thing they complain about is him not giving fringe players a chance.

The only reason his position will not become untenable is because it would cost the FAI too much to acknowledge that. I can't wait until he is gone to be honest.

His popularity is at an all-time low, yes, but he was already very unpopular in the first campaign when people figured out he was just going to park the bus for 90 minutes and hope to nick a goal. His big mouth gets him in trouble but so far we haven't lost anybody we'll miss as a result.

When have the players questioned his tactics? If anything, they blame themselves for not passing the ball enough within the system. I mean fringe players like Gibson and McClean have complained about not being given enough chances.

[jbyrne]

His popularity with fans is at an all time low.

when did we last have a manager who was continually popular with the fans? Even Jack went through periods of unpopularity.
most of our fans are deluded about the land of milk and honey that they think would exist if trap left. we go through this phase with each manager only to find that the next management doesnt deliver on these expectations either

[Fixer82]

What does our squad look like now with all the injuries/withdrawals?

[Supreme feet]

Goalkeepers: Westwood, Forde, Randolph

Defenders: Kelly, Coleman, O’Shea, Clark, O’Dea, McShane, Ward, Wilson.

Midfielders: Meyler, McCarthy, Andrews, Fahey, McGeady, Brady.

Strikers: Keane, Long, Cox, Walters, Keogh.

[SkStu]

when did we last have a manager who was continually popular with the fans? Even Jack went through periods of unpopularity.

And where exactly did I suggest otherwise? Jack or anyone else's popularity is irrelevant. They are gone. What I wrote is indisputably true. His popularity is at an all time low. And rightly so in my opinion.

He's a dinosaur. I hope he gets the chop and the sooner the better.

[SkStu]

most of our fans are deluded about the land of milk and honey that they think would exist if trap left. we go through this phase with each manager only to find that the next management doesnt deliver on these expectations either

I am well aware of and prepared for the dark times that are ahead for Irish football that are not the fault of any manager but rather the fault of the administrators of the game here. I just don't want Trap as manager while we still have some talent available to us. Prehistoric the crap that we play.

[Charlie Darwin]

A couple of little tidbits from the Times' updated article: Trapattoni said O'Shea will "probably" play CH (I think earlier reports just said he hinted) and that he's been playing a three-man midfield in training games with Andrews, McCarthy and one of Fahey and Meyler. I'd actually forgotten Fahey was in the squad, but I think Meyler might have a better chance of featuring due to his physique.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/soc...325038014.html

[paul_oshea]

I am well aware of and prepared for the dark times that are ahead for Irish football that are not the fault of any manager but rather the fault of the administrators of the game here. I just don't want Trap as manager while we still have some talent available to us. Prehistoric the crap that we play.

Whilst I agree with SkStu overall, i think there is relevance to the argument that aren't irish fans always unhappy, the point being they should be ignored, could be a valid one.

Personally, I'm happy for the short term impact for longer term benefits of having Trap, if he got us to qualify for Brazil. If we qualify it keeps the interests or breeds new interest for 7, 8 , 9 year olds in soccer in the country. If the structure and organisation within that period of say 10 years can change and focus more on technical ability than anything else then its a double whammy.

What I don't believe is that we can't get both with Trap, the change that everyone wants, with the players that people would like to see brought in and a slight change of tactics. But I'm still willing to let Trap do his stuff, only if we get the results though, and those seem to be running out fast.