Ireland V Germany 12th October & Faroe Islands 16th October 2012 - World Cup 2014 Q

[Charlie Darwin]

Who else has he bigged up and not played?

[Noelys Guitar]

Who else has he bigged up and not played?

Ironically McClean a week before the Kazakhstan game. That didn't end well. McCarthy numerous times. Doyle and Long numerous times. Do you believe he will start McCarthy instead of Andrews? Or change the system to accomadate McCarthy? There is the slimmest of chances Trapatonni will play McCarthy instead of Cox but I doubt it very much.

[Charlie Darwin]

What did he say to big-up McClean? He spent the entire week talking about how he was sick.

I suspect he will play Andrews, but possibly in a three-man midfield with Whelan and McCarthy.

[Noelys Guitar]

What did he say to big-up McClean? He spent the entire week talking about how he was sick.

I suspect he will play Andrews, but possibly in a three-man midfield with Whelan and McCarthy.

http://foot.ie/threads/170411-Kazakh...h-thread/page7 post 138 onwards.

Trap is just playing games with the media(and fans) by suggesting McCarthy might play in a three man midfield. He originally suggested an extra man in midfield after the 3-2 home defeat to Germany. Briefly mentioned it after the 0-0 draw away to Russia. Made it sound like a certainty after the Euros. Not going to happen.

[Charlie Darwin]

Hardly bigging him up. He said that maybe he could play.

[Noelys Guitar]

Hardly bigging him up. He said that maybe he could play.

But he had no intention of playing McClean. Trap is going to continue to play O'Shea at right back (despite the player saying he longer has the legs for it. Hence the move back to center half at Sunderland). Ward a poor left back will also start. Why? Within the squad we have Wilson and Kelly. Neither great players but better than what will start the game against Germany.. Kelly should be starting at RB. Wilson at LB and O;Shea and Sledge center backs. Coleman, Andrews, McCarthy Whelan and McGeady. Long as the lone striker. Westwood in goal. Not going to happen unfortunately. Germany are no Spain and we have the players that could really give them a tough game.

[Charlie Darwin]

Germany are probably the closest side in the world to Spain in terms of ability.

I find it questionable that people demand Coleman be included instead of O'Shea and Wilson instead of Ward. It's at best a like for like switch. A conservative full back (Wilson) for an offensive (Ward) and vice-versa (Coleman for O'Shea). At best, we are slightly better off than before; at worst, we are more vulnerable using players unfamiliar with the system.

[Stuttgart88]

But is the system effective?

[OwlsFan]

I find it questionable that people demand Coleman be included instead of O'Shea and Wilson instead of Ward. It's at best a like for like switch. A conservative full back (Wilson) for an offensive (Ward) and vice-versa (Coleman for O'Shea). At best, we are slightly better off than before; at worst, we are more vulnerable using players unfamiliar with the system.

While I agree with you, it is usually small margins which win games. O'Shea is incapable of finding his own player when playing at full back but I think he is played for his height as is Ward. We are quite a small team (even StL isn't that tall) and in the absence of Dunne we will be very vulnerable in the air at set pieces, not exactly Coleman's strongest asset.

A back 4 of Wilson, O'Shea, StL, Coleman on the ground is better than O'S, StL, O'D, Ward but not in the air. Which margin do you go with?

[Noelys Guitar]

Germany are probably the closest side in the world to Spain in terms of ability.

I find it questionable that people demand Coleman be included instead of O'Shea and Wilson instead of Ward. It's at best a like for like switch. A conservative full back (Wilson) for an offensive (Ward) and vice-versa (Coleman for O'Shea). At best, we are slightly better off than before; at worst, we are more vulnerable using players unfamiliar with the system.

I'm not suggesting Coleman play at right back. I would play him out wide on the right in the same role he plays for Everton. I would play Kelly at right back with O'Shea moving back to center back. Kelly already knows the system and Wilson plays in a similar system at Stoke. Germany folded against an Italy side that then got hammered by Spain. That said they are a good side with some very good players. Which is why we need some pace in the team up front to keep their lumbering center backs busy. If we go with Walters and Keane as I suspect it will mean the ball coming straight back every time. Play Long as lone striker and Coleman out right and it will give the German defense a problem they won't have expected.

[paul_oshea]

While I agree with you, it is usually small margins which win games. O'Shea is incapable of finding his own player when playing at full back but I think he is played for his height as is Ward. We are quite a small team (even StL isn't that tall) and in the absence of Dunne we will be very vulnerable in the air at set pieces, not exactly Coleman's strongest asset.

A back 4 of Wilson, O'Shea, StL, Coleman on the ground is better than O'S, StL, O'D, Ward but not in the air. Which margin do you go with?

The margin that is the most obvious one, the one that causes goals, and creates chances for the opposing team. Thats the system/the team/the model with Ward. Without ward you seriously limit those chances.

If people still can't see this, I don't know why they spend so much time posting on forums like this. You are wasting your time and will never see it. Cricket might be more your thing - and wards....

[Olé Olé]

Germany are probably the closest side in the world to Spain in terms of ability.

I find it questionable that people demand Coleman be included instead of O'Shea and Wilson instead of Ward. It's at best a like for like switch. A conservative full back (Wilson) for an offensive (Ward) and vice-versa (Coleman for O'Shea). At best, we are slightly better off than before; at worst, we are more vulnerable using players unfamiliar with the system.

Fair enough Ward pushes forward, but I'd argue his effect is minimal. Against Kazakhstan some of the balls he played to McGeady were terrible. I remember one stage McGeady showed for it, Ward hesitated and so McGeady pushed on for a ball over the top of the two opposing players. The ball didn't even skip the first player.

[AlaskaFox]

I see Trap has already started bigging up McCarthy and suggesting we might play a different system. He says the exact same things before every game with only the personnel changing. Big up a player and then not play him.

I don't think this is necessarily Trap's fault. At the press conferences, the journos will always ask Trap about the fringe players "Is there a chance McCarthy or McClean will play against Germany?" And then Trap replies that either "we can play McCarthy behind the striker or in midfield" or that "McClean needs more experience with the system". They don't ask "Hey Gio, how do you think Glenn Whelan will do against Germany?" so therefore there's no quotes about Whelan printed unless it's a "We watch Hoolahan, but we already have Whelan, Andrews, McCarthy, Fahey, who play in this position".

[Crosby87]

Stupid question probably but is Dunne definitely out?

[Charlie Darwin]

But is the system effective?

It's more effective than the alternatives right now, but sticking doggedly to it isn't going to improve us either. It probably reached the peak of its effectiveness in the Euro qualifiers.

Fair enough Ward pushes forward, but I'd argue his effect is minimal. Against Kazakhstan some of the balls he played to McGeady were terrible. I remember one stage McGeady showed for it, Ward hesitated and so McGeady pushed on for a ball over the top of the two opposing players. The ball didn't even skip the first player.

His effective is more than Kilbane ever offered. He's a good technical player but lacks a brain. He'll be replaced by a better player eventually but for now I think he's the best all-round option at LB.

Stupid question probably but is Dunne definitely out?

You'd get short odds. Trap says he'd need a club game before Germany. He could theoretically be fit for Villa's last game before the window but they'd probably rest him anyway just to ensure he doesn't go away and get injured with Ireland.

[Stuttgart88]

It's more effective than the alternatives right now, but sticking doggedly to it isn't going to improve us either. It probably reached the peak of its effectiveness in the Euro qualifiers.

Maybe, maybe not. But even if we stick with the same shape I think having Wilson and Coleman at full backs would improve things, other things being equal. We were woeful at full back during the Euros and against Kazakhstan. Lacking in pace and mobility. I take the point about needing some height in the team but on balance I'd prefer to see those two start, with SSL and JOS at CB. Even if SSL isn't the tallest, he's a very good aerial ball winner.

[Charlie Darwin]

I'm not sure what people see in Wilson. I think he'd be every bit as villified as Ward given a run of games.

[geysir]

The margin that is the most obvious one, the one that causes goals, and creates chances for the opposing team. Thats the system/the team/the model with Ward. Without ward you seriously limit those chances.

If people still can't see this, I don't know why they spend so much time posting on forums like this. You are wasting your time and will never see it. Cricket might be more your thing - and wards....

You may well be seriously deluded to think that there would be such a difference to our game without Ward. You might even be so deluded as to think you know better than other folk here
But one things for sure, it was Ward's mistake which led to that goal for Oman.

On our back 4 for this game I'd go for Kelly, St Ledger, O'Shea and Wilson but I don't know what form Kelly is in these days. I thought Coleman was all over the pitch in the 2nd half against Oman, was he not supposed be at RB when Kelly went to LB?

[Jolly Red Giant]

Can someone please explain to me how a journeyman centre-back who is lucky to be playing with a run-of-the-mill MLS team is in the squad and a centre-back who is playing for a Premier League team will be clicking his heels at home?

And if Trap is so spiteful - then he should be sacked (actually he should be sacked anyway - he has brought the team as far as he can and it will be downhill from here on in).

[Crosby87]

So our back four is going to be Dick-less? Great.