That could be a strategy alright. Maybe that was why budgets were never strictly followed for years in the place, others could have been waiting to pick up the show for nothing after draining the place. What are the losses in Wanderers and how were they created? Anyone got the details?Originally Posted by Captain2007
Continuing my trawl through the CRO filings some more interesting facts emerge, I'm sure all Bray Wanderers supporters will be interested.
Financial Analysis of Bray Wanderers
The company was incorporated in 1985 and at the end of 1998 the accumulated losses of the company were €133,212 (IR£ 104,913). That's a period of 14 years.
(I note from the 1998 filed accounts Mr Philip Hannigan is recorded as a director,
but there is no B10 in the companies office confirming his resignation).
At the end of 2006 (a further period of 8 years) the accumulated losses of the company were €1,091,611
That is an increase in losses of €958,399 or an average of 120K per annum.
(Which is practically an annual loss the same as the whole period 1985-1998)
Losses between 1999 - 2006
1,091,611
-133,212
958,399
On 31/12/2006 four member of the board resigned.
1 Board between 1999 - 2006
Name Resigned Eddie Cox Eddie Slevin Frank Slevin John Deering Ian Hume 31/12/2006 Pat Devlin 31/12/2006 Paul Wallace 31/12/2006 Richard Holfeld 31/12/2006
In 2006/2007 as mentioned here before New investors came in buying €300,000 in shares. In that process they significantly bailed out the company that had been generating such horrendous losses.
Between 2007 and 2010 a further €248,987 of losses were incurred but this includes depreciation.
If you take into account that the Fixed Assets of the company were €662,252, four years depreciation at 10% (as per accounting policy) is likely to have been €264,900, then the company made a small trading profit.
This being the case, why are all the directors during this period now gone? It would appear from these figures they were doing something right. Considering what had gone on before would it not have been prudent to encourage them to stay. The club may not have been as successful on the field of play but at least it still exists.
2 Board between 2007 - 2011
Name Resigned Eddie Cox Eddie Slevin 10/06/2011 Frank Slevin 12/08/2011 John Deering 30/04/2012 Aidan O'Rourke 11/10/2011 George Southern 03/06/2010 Pat Lynch 17/06/2011
The 2011 accounts are not filed but should have been by the end of August 2012 (9 months after Financial Year End) so I cannot report on the full term of this board but going on the previous years its likely they broke even.
Thanks for the summary there.
I can see why the first bunch resigned in 2006 after seven years of losses in a row. Were they unable to stick to a buget for the club?
And that second wave of resignations in 2011/2012, looks like a major cull with no replacements coming on board?
Last edited by starryknight; 10/10/2012 at 10:00 AM.
The figures do make a lot of sense, but lessons did not seem to have be learned from previous mistakes ie: paying a striker 900 quid a week for 4 goals in a particular season (had to off-load him and pay the rest of his 2 year contract)and also paying a manager 52 weeks of the year when we are only playing for 36 weeks, 16 weeks of absolutely no gate receipts and they were still paying staff and players, I could go on...rant over.
Keep going, it needs to be heard. Learning from mistakes just might be possible but it could be a big learning curve for Wanderers.
All the above situations come from entering reckless contracts pushed onto the Board by the football manager and a weak management who didn't have the footballs to stand up and say no that is not in the budget and it is wrong to spend money that simply was not there.
Instead budgets were allowed to be broken and contracts were signed when the funds were not there to back them up.
In the end it all boils down to weak management, trying to appease the football side and ignoring the financial realities.
Management divided and acting without a united front usually leads to individuals acting on their own agenda and the administration of the affected organisation then becomes susceptible to stress, manipulation, disagreements and eventual fallout and fratricide.
This was not a rant, it was informing the supporters and the people of Bray what is actually going on at the club. So little is known by the supporters and it's not right. The supporters at the end of the day pay the player and staff wages. It's time for a complete departure from the secrecy of the past. The only way to ensure that is for there to be a St Josephs Boys, supporters club representative on the board.
behind the scenes players are being approached about next season , couple of very talented youngsters have been spoken too about joining for next season
the same as it ever was
Is it any surprise, the Director of Football makes a statement to the press of his intention to resign at the end of the season. The club as usual make no comment. There is all the rumor about financial uncertainty why wouldn't players want away and secure contracts for next season. The board just hope the problems go away and it will be all right in the end. No plan, no action.
What is it that Talking Heads say, "the same as it ever was"
SO its the same old story, sign up players without a proper business plan and leave creditors waiting when it suits the administrators, yes there is evidence of this 'allegation'.
There is too much evidence of this administration playing loosely with the rules to be ignored. We will have to wait for the Albatross dive bomber to seek out more of the truth and to get the answers to the questions.
Last edited by starryknight; 17/10/2012 at 10:43 PM.
No Money, No ambition, No Directors, bringing back staff they fired 2 seasons ago and now they will be one season ticket holder less for next season.
other than sligo, which clubs are in good nick ?
UCD seem to be doing okay.
Shams as well.
Yes UCD are a great example of how to run a club in the LOI. They do not waste any money they have!
On a side note, is Jack O’Neill still more or less running the show in Bray? Is his position ever opposed, challenged, voted on or is it a case of he is the only person willing do the job? May i add what great service he has given Bray over the years.
Lets talk about six baby
UCD have one big advantage I expect, their ground being part of the University Campus is looked after at no cost to the club. I could be wrong.
Jack is still the day to day face of the club and deals with all the administration from making sure match day runs smoothly, dealing with the FAI, the list is endless. But despite the fact that he is now a director and company secretary he is still an employee of the club and has to do what he is told.
So who is telling him what to do? Well one individual has decided that he is the only one who knows how to run the club, the fount of all football and business knowledge. This one individual though is slinking around in the background so if anything goes wrong he won't be blamed. He will remain the "shining knight" the in Bray community. As a director Jack O'Neill will be the fall guy so as you say "what great service he has given Bray over the years" and hopefully that will not be tarnished by what happens in the future.
Its alright for us to make comments and observations here and for contributors here to ask questions on where we think Braw Wanderers is going, but of course we will never hear a comment from the club's officials. Maybe they are following the FAI rule book and avoiding any comment:
"An Administrator must refrain from making contributions to the media which are likely to portray the game unfairly, incompletely or inaccurately."
Captain2007 quoted ''No Money, No ambition, No Directors, bringing back staff they fired 2 seasons ago and now they will be one season ticket holder less for next season''
To sum it up : MAD -- No Money, Ambition, Directors.
It is very sad, and a major review in strategy, leadership and direction is required for 2013 season.
Would you agree?
I think we are all agreed on that.
STRATEGY : Need money to implement a strategy, but with falling fan base and no core fans willing to provide financial support this could be difficult. What does the Club offer the fans?
LEADERSHIP: Need people with vision willing to join with the club, looks like they have lost a lot of those people recently.
Leader's emotional state can effect an entire organisation. BW need people who can exude a postitve leadership. Here is a WIKI piece on leadership emotional input:
"Beyond the leader's mood, her/his behavior is a source for employee positive and negative emotions at work. The leader creates situations and events that lead to emotional response. Certain leader behaviors displayed during interactions with their employees are the sources of these affective events. Leaders shape workplace affective events. Examples – feedback giving, allocating tasks, resource distribution. Since employee behavior and productivity are directly affected by their emotional states, it is imperative to consider employee emotional responses to organizational leaders. Emotional intelligence, the ability to understand and manage moods and emotions in the self and others, contributes to effective leadership within organizations." Emotional contagion is a problem in many organisations, simply put it means that the feelings and thoughts of the management is somehow transmitted down through the organisation, for example even from the top down to the player level. So it the boss is a bully, or paranoid, or lacks real empathy, then these vibes are picked up and transmitted.
STRATEGY : Need some plan that will appeal to the young players and their families, offering a possibility to a young player to take them from kid to top level if they are good enough. Is Bray Wanderers doing any of this? How could Bray Wanderers do any of this?
Last edited by starryknight; 23/10/2012 at 12:42 PM.
He may have bought the club for one penny but he took over all the debts and also the land on which Stamford Bridge stood was prime London real estate.
In comparison Bray have accumulated losses of 1.5million funded basically by 800K in shares and 700K in loans to club, then there are Creditors/Bank/Revenue debts. The chances in the current climate of people walking away from what they are owed is unlikely. So if PD is thinking of taking over the club he better have 1 million in his back pocket. He could get the club for a penny but like Bates he would take over the debt.
Bray Wanderers entered the L.O.I. in 1985 and have had some great successes and gone through some difficult times sice then. I don't think times have ever been as difficult as they are now. Its sad to see this happening to our Club, and unfortunately I don't have any great wisdom, as I dont understand Directorships and shareholdings and all that. However having read all the recent discussions here I feel we have some people putting up messages here who could help the Club. Can I suggest that anybody who feels they have a vision that could help Bray Wdrs out of their present situation, should contact the General Manager with a view to arranging a private meeting to discuss the situation. I would imagine whoever is running the Club would be delighted to discuss all options.I would fervently hope that something positive could come out of this, and we would be in a better state at the start of next season. C.O.Y.B.G.
Last edited by notever; 25/10/2012 at 4:14 PM.
Once upon a time there was a King who lived in an ivory tower in the land of Bray .
The King believed he was the fount of all knowledge, as King's do, and would have a tantrum if his instructions were not carried out to the letter of the law, the King's word being the law. His servants went to his ivory tower regularly to pay
homage and to listen to his wise words as it was beneath the King's dignity to go out among his subjects.
The King's chief servant was responsible for carrying out the King's instructions. Anyone who dissented would be told by the chief servant saying in a loud voice "The King wont like that". The King was happy and gave a knighthood to his favourite servant, henceforth he was to be known as Sir Laughalot, because the servant was famous for his smile.
You see Sir Laughalot likes to have his portrait made and enjoys his position of seeming important, he regularly could be seen presenting parchments to the King's subjects to much applause at which he always had his portrait painted. This makes Sir Laughalot very proud but gives much mirth and hilarity to the King's subjects.
Recently the kingdom received new visitors bearing gifts and tokens of affection. They were made very welcome and became residents in the Kingdom.
But a dark cloud descended on the Kingdom and as time passed the King began to view the visitors with suspicion and disdain. You see the King had not been consulted when his servants had accepted the gifts on his behalf despite the fact that the Kingdom had benefited greatly from these gifts.
The servants picked up on this and they too became resentful of the visitors. The King decided that these new subjects should be banished from his kingdom. He instructed SIr Laughalot to sign the legal papers to exclude the visitors from the kingdom and to escort then to the gates and cast them out. Many subjects cheered Sir Laughalot but other thought that the King had shown no gratitude for the benefits and gifts the visitors had brought and from which he benefited and were sad.
As time passed the King became more odd. He became suspicious of some of his servants because they questioned his right to rule and they questioned if the King was wearing any clothes or in fact did the King even own any clothes.
The King became a very angry and decided to punish his servants and banish then too. The servants were forced to hand their clothes to King before they were banished. The King then celebrated with much mirth and hilarity at what he had done, the remaining servants joined in but secretly feared what may happen them if the King continues to rule.
The remaining servants need not have feared. The King rewarded the faithful ones by giving them the banished servant’s clothes. The faithful ones rejoiced again with much mirth and hilarity at their good fortune and despised those who had been banished even more.
The banished visitors and the servants joined forces and sought the help of a nearby good Emperor.
The Emperor had been a peaceful man but upon hearing of the Kings deeds he vowed to vindicate the dispossessed people. He rallied his forces and his four biggest and bravest legions have arrived at the borders in preparation for an invasion.These legions could inflict havoc and destruction on this tiny kingdom.
The Kings remaining faithful servants, having spent all the money that was in the coffers and now wait for the King to come forth with his words of wisdom to save them from the just retribution. But the King has become more reclusive and his servants no longer believe his words. All await the day of reckoning.
Will the Kings servants and subjects see that the writing is on the wall or will they hang on to the bitter end believing the King will save them?
And the moral of the story is "power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely" ("Animal Farm", George Orwell)
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