Page 1 of 7 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 137

Thread: Petition for the Rights of all Citizens to Vote in Presidential Elections

  1. #1
    Apprentice
    Joined
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    53
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3
    Thanked in
    3 Posts

    Petition for the Rights of all Citizens to Vote in Presidential Elections

    http://www.change.org/petitions/depa...-voting-rights

    All Irish citizens in Ireland and abroad should have the right to vote in presidential elections. Sign if you wish and share on other forums, facebook, etc.

  2. #2
    Seasoned Pro peadar1987's Avatar
    Joined
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Glasgow
    Posts
    2,540
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    746
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    783
    Thanked in
    462 Posts
    I'm torn on this one. I'm an emigrant, I doubt I'll ever return to Ireland to live. At least not for the next decade or two. I don't really have that much of a stake in who the president is. However, that doesn't mean I don't want to come back, and voting for the right people is one way of trying to make sure the Ireland of 2032 is one I'd like to come back to.

    However, "all Irish citizens" is a bit broad, seeing as that would include anyone who has a grandparent who is also an Irish citizen. I would be seriously worried about seven million Irish-Americans trying to start some sort of Tea Party libertarian, or nutty religious-right movement over here with their new-found voting rights.

    Perhaps all those born on the island of Ireland, and those currently resident there, would be a fair compromise.

  3. #3
    International Prospect osarusan's Avatar
    Joined
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Limerick for now.
    Posts
    7,292
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,113
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,519
    Thanked in
    834 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by peadar1987 View Post
    Perhaps all those born on the island of Ireland, and those currently resident there, would be a fair compromise.
    I live in Japan now, and my daughter was born here, but my son was born in Ireland - we moved back here when he was 4 months old (it would have been 2 months except for the tsunami).

    Even if neither of them set foot in Ireland again, he'd be entitled to vote but she wouldn't, under your suggestion. I get your point about people outside Ireland having a stake in what it could become, but there will be plenty of people with different ancestry/family/migration situations that could highlight the unfairness of any new voting eligibility criteria.

    The current cut-off point for voting rights probably makes the most sense, in my opinion.

    Also, you're only an Irish citizen from birth if your granparent was an Irish citizen born in Ireland. Otherwise, the citizenship must be applied for before the birth of the next generation family member - otherwise the chance is lost. I wonder how many of the Irish-Americans you mentioned have actually maintained the citizenship.
    Last edited by osarusan; 30/08/2012 at 11:53 AM.

  4. Thanks From:


  5. #4
    Capped Player DannyInvincible's Avatar
    Joined
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Derry
    Posts
    11,523
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    3,404
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3,738
    Thanked in
    2,284 Posts
    Ideally, the President should represent all members of the Irish nation, be they living on the island of Ireland or living abroad.

    Quote Originally Posted by osarusan View Post
    Even if neither of them set foot in Ireland again, he'd be entitled to vote but she wouldn't, under your suggestion. I get your point about people outside Ireland having a stake in what it could become, but there will be plenty of people with different ancestry/family/migration situations that could highlight the unfairness of any new voting eligibility criteria.
    Surely it would be less unfair than the current situation though? Wouldn't that be an improvement, at least in so far as the notion of fairness is concerned?

  6. #5
    Seasoned Pro
    Joined
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Black Earth, Russia
    Posts
    3,178
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    2,739
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    584
    Thanked in
    398 Posts
    Irish-born citizens living abroad should be able to vote. Diplomats, military personnel and those serving with the UN (or associated bodies) can, I'm not sure about the yahoos in the EU bodies. I'm loathe to allow Irish citizens from the irish tree voting rights. I saw personally how such a scheme completely and utterly messed up Croatia and the same could happen in Ireland. I have always tried to get home, if even for a day, to vote and would love nothing more than to go to the local Embassy to vote if the chance came. But again, not being born in Ireland, I don't see it as a good idea.

  7. #6
    International Prospect osarusan's Avatar
    Joined
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Limerick for now.
    Posts
    7,292
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,113
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,519
    Thanked in
    834 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by DannyInvincible View Post
    Surely it would be less unfair than the current situation though? Wouldn't that be an improvement, at least in so far as the notion of fairness is concerned?
    There is going to have to be some cut-off point in terms of voting rights, and residency in Ireland seems to me to be a more fair one than birth in Ireland. I don't really see how a birth-related proposal is any improvement in terms of fairness.
    Last edited by osarusan; 30/08/2012 at 2:38 PM.

  8. #7
    Like the Fonz. Only a dog. Mr A's Avatar
    Joined
    Jun 2004
    Location
    In the gutter, but looking at the stars
    Posts
    10,955
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,570
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3,042
    Thanked in
    1,383 Posts
    I'm inclined to invoke an old maxim in reverse here- no representation without taxation. I think the current set up is OK, but there should be far more allowance for postal voting. You shouldn't lose your vote because you happen to be away for a day.

  9. Thanks From:


  10. #8
    Now with extra sauce! Dodge's Avatar
    Joined
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Insomnia
    Posts
    23,528
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    663
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,674
    Thanked in
    1,453 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by DannyInvincible View Post
    Surely it would be less unfair than the current situation though? Wouldn't that be an improvement, at least in so far as the notion of fairness is concerned?
    Are you overstating the importance of the president by introducing the idea of it being fair/unfair?

    Don't mind the idea of irish citizens abroad voting for the President. Its pretty much ceremonial so any attempt to 'hijack it' would be pretty pointless. I'd make it anybody with an Irish passport, and like here have a electoral register so they must apply for that vote first.

    Don't want voting rights extended to other elections/referenda though

    Quote Originally Posted by Spudulika View Post
    Irish-born citizens living abroad should be able to vote. Diplomats, military personnel and those serving with the UN (or associated bodies) can, I'm not sure about the yahoos in the EU bodies.
    If they're serving Irish public servants working on posting/secondment abroad they can. IF they're irish and employed directly by EU, UN, European parliament etc they they're not eligible
    54,321 sold - wws will never die - ***
    ---
    New blog if anyone's interested - http://loihistory.wordpress.com/
    LOI section on balls.ie - http://balls.ie/league-of-ireland/

  11. Thanks From:


  12. #9
    Godless Commie Scum
    Joined
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Co Wickla
    Posts
    11,389
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    137
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    650
    Thanked in
    433 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by peadar1987 View Post
    I'm torn on this one. I'm an emigrant, I doubt I'll ever return to Ireland to live. At least not for the next decade or two. I don't really have that much of a stake in who the president is. However, that doesn't mean I don't want to come back, and voting for the right people is one way of trying to make sure the Ireland of 2032 is one I'd like to come back to.
    President has little impact on what the state is like anyway, but it is important to how we are perceived abroad which can have a positive or negative effect on residents. Would we have got the (imo right) result we got the last time with the extra block? Or would we have McGuinness or even worse the bagman (due to postal votes having already gone)?

    Personally, I'd prefer non resident citizens to have a 3 seat seanad constituency. A Dáil constituency has too much potential to hold the balance of power and get undue influence. And by undue influence I mean their constituents don't have to live with the consequences (Mr A's point). Where as in the Seanad they'd have a voice and a chance to initiate debate.
    If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.

  13. Thanks From:


  14. #10
    Apprentice
    Joined
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    53
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3
    Thanked in
    3 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Macy View Post
    President has little impact on what the state is like anyway, but it is important to how we are perceived abroad which can have a positive or negative effect on residents. Would we have got the (imo right) result we got the last time with the extra block? Or would we have McGuinness or even worse the bagman (due to postal votes having already gone)?

    Personally, I'd prefer non resident citizens to have a 3 seat seanad constituency. A Dáil constituency has too much potential to hold the balance of power and get undue influence. And by undue influence I mean their constituents don't have to live with the consequences (Mr A's point). Where as in the Seanad they'd have a voice and a chance to initiate debate.
    In democracy the result is the result. It's wrong to just assume that everyone in the north would automatically vote for ginger Marty. Though a lot probably would have in reaction to the way he was regularly ganged up on. Bizzare I know. I know I would have voted for Michael D.

    Sure usually if it's not the right result you's just do it again.

  15. Thanks From:


  16. #11
    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2002
    Location
    In the long grass
    Posts
    30,242
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,336
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,637
    Thanked in
    1,640 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky-O'Hare View Post
    In democracy the result is the result.
    You must be new to Ireland.

  17. #12
    Apprentice
    Joined
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    53
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3
    Thanked in
    3 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    You must be new to Ireland.
    Haha, no I'd just like a new Ireland.

  18. #13
    Godless Commie Scum
    Joined
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Co Wickla
    Posts
    11,389
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    137
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    650
    Thanked in
    433 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky-O'Hare View Post
    Sure usually if it's not the right result you's just do it again.
    Don't you mean "we"?
    If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.

  19. #14
    Apprentice
    Joined
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    53
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3
    Thanked in
    3 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Macy View Post
    Don't you mean "we"?
    Apologies, I generalised just like you did.

  20. #15
    Coach BonnieShels's Avatar
    Joined
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Elm Valley, Blackpool
    Posts
    11,839
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    2,232
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,564
    Thanked in
    1,766 Posts
    I would like ALL citizens no matter how tenuous their relationship to this country as they are citizens and they should be afforded the right to be able to vote in their Presidential elections.

    I would like 1 Dáil seat reserved for, how should I say, non-Free state constituency to voted for by ALL citizens that do not reside in the State.

    I would like the Seanad to be reduced in size and have an overseas cohort also.

    I don't see why they can't arrange consulates and embassies to be set up as polling stations for the period like Australia and Sweden do. And for postal votes for registered overseas Irish to be forwarded to the nearest embassy.
    DID YOU NOTICE A SIGN OUTSIDE MY HOUSE...?

  21. #16
    First Team Gather round's Avatar
    Joined
    Apr 2006
    Location
    West Midlands, England
    Posts
    2,044
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    106
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    221
    Thanked in
    170 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Aidan Heaney of Omagh United Kingdom commenting on that petition
    I am an Irish citizen and I am part of the Irish Nation regardless of the fact to north is still not free
    Feel yer pain Aidan, but don't confuse irritation about the route of the border with freedom. You get to vote for district councillors, fools on the Hill and abstentionist MPs. Hardly a democratic deficit.

    Quote Originally Posted by peadar1987 View Post
    Perhaps all those born on the island of Ireland, and those currently resident there, would be a fair compromise
    Not everyone born in Ireland being automatically entitled to citizenship might prove a problem?

    Quote Originally Posted by DannyInvincible View Post
    Ideally, the President should represent all members of the Irish nation, be they living on the island of Ireland or living abroad
    Many would disagree that it's ideal, whether because of 'no representation without taxation' thats others mentioned, or that hundreds of thousands who don't identify with the state/ nation could theoretically be involved.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dodge
    Don't mind the idea of irish citizens abroad voting for the President. Its pretty much ceremonial so any attempt to 'hijack it' would be pretty pointless
    You could make it 100% ceremonial (trivial?) if it's 99% already. Just have a phone-in to a premium line hosted by Louis Walsh and Tuathlisa. President Martin Sheen might follow, but would that be such a bad thing?

    I'd make it anybody with an Irish passport, and like here have a electoral register so they must apply for that vote first. Don't want voting rights extended to other elections/referenda though
    If you're going to charge people €80 (many may not have a current passport, or use one from another state), they might reasonably expect the right to vote in other elections or referenda?
    Last edited by Gather round; 31/08/2012 at 8:43 AM.

  22. #17
    First Team
    Joined
    May 2010
    Location
    Dublin
    Posts
    2,053
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    911
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,324
    Thanked in
    641 Posts
    Frankly, I’d rather we got our house in order at home first before giving votes to millions living overseas. It’s rather pathetic that, despite having seven candidates and a highly public campaign, the presidential election achieved a 56% turnout. Since 1990 turnout has not exceeded 70% of the electorate in any general election.

    We need to sort this out before we start looking at overseas voting. What makes us think that Irish citizens are any more likely to vote when they leave the country? If they’re working in Dublin and can’t travel to Roscommon for a Thursday vote (or haven’t gotten round to changing their constituency), are they any more likely to travel halfway across another country to the nearest embassy or legation, or even to a post office to send off their ballot, which they would probably have to apply for in the first case?

    Emigrant voting is something of a romanticised notion, but it has far less to commend it than online petitions suggest.
    Hello, hello? What's going on? What's all this shouting, we'll have no trouble here!
    - E Tattsyrup.

  23. #18
    First Team Gather round's Avatar
    Joined
    Apr 2006
    Location
    West Midlands, England
    Posts
    2,044
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    106
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    221
    Thanked in
    170 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Eminence Grise View Post
    Frankly, I’d rather we got our house in order at home first...the presidential election achieved a 56% turnout
    I'd take a bottom-up approach EG. 56% taking the trouble is encouraging, not disappointing. It's nearly three times the turnout for local councillors in my area, btw.

    What makes us think that Irish citizens are any more likely to vote when they leave the country?
    Even if nothing, is that relevant? Giving a vote to expats, permanent emigrants, diaspora descendants or even N*rd**s can be justified in its own terms, even if a lot less than 56% of them bother.

  24. #19
    Seasoned Pro
    Joined
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Black Earth, Russia
    Posts
    3,178
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    2,739
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    584
    Thanked in
    398 Posts
    EG, you've pointed out something that is very pertinent, low voter turnout. I know that as Irish people we love failing traditions - the LOI being one of them - though I have been really aware of the plight of many people (students in particular) who weren't able to vote to a certain degree as they were in Uni in Dublin and couldn't get home and back on a Thursday to vote. Now in saying that, they usually went on the tear Thursday night and didn't go to class on Friday, but that's beside the point. The last 3 general elections were held on Wednesday, Thursday and Friday. Why can't elections be held on a weekend? Sunday's for example. It's nothing as radical as a single division in the LOI, but it might get more of a vote out.

    From my own point of view, the last Presidential election suffered as a result of the nation being rid of candidates and the media dictation as to who was worthy of the retirement home in the Park. Then again I'm cynical.

  25. #20
    Now with extra sauce! Dodge's Avatar
    Joined
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Insomnia
    Posts
    23,528
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    663
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,674
    Thanked in
    1,453 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Gather round View Post
    You could make it 100% ceremonial (trivial?) if it's 99% already. Just have a phone-in to a premium line hosted by Louis Walsh and Tuathlisa. President Martin Sheen might follow, but would that be such a bad thing?
    Pretty much ceremonial I said. Important enough distinction IMO

    If you're going to charge people €80 (many may not have a current passport, or use one from another state), they might reasonably expect the right to vote in other elections or referenda?
    If "Irish abroad" don't want an irish passport then I don't think they should vote. If they have a passport, and want to vote, I don't see why they can't keep local embassies/consulates aware of their address so they can send them ballots etc. You want the embassies to just send out ballots to anyone?
    54,321 sold - wws will never die - ***
    ---
    New blog if anyone's interested - http://loihistory.wordpress.com/
    LOI section on balls.ie - http://balls.ie/league-of-ireland/

Page 1 of 7 123 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. US Presidential Elections
    By Gaz in forum Current Affairs
    Replies: 457
    Last Post: 02/12/2008, 4:14 PM
  2. c.i.a. gains powers over irish citizens
    By ken foree in forum Off Topic
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: 03/08/2005, 6:43 PM
  3. How do you vote in elections?
    By Shelsman in forum Off Topic
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 14/06/2004, 7:50 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •