Page 4 of 7 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 80 of 137

Thread: Petition for the Rights of all Citizens to Vote in Presidential Elections

  1. #61
    Capped Player DannyInvincible's Avatar
    Joined
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Derry
    Posts
    11,524
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    3,404
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3,738
    Thanked in
    2,284 Posts
    Why are there Union flags along the Quays? Something to do with Ireland's Presidency of the Council of the EU?

    Wouldn't the Union flag fly daily within the grounds of the British Embassy in Dublin? Pretty sure that's a Union flag it in the top left of this photo:


  2. #62
    Coach BonnieShels's Avatar
    Joined
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Elm Valley, Blackpool
    Posts
    11,845
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    2,238
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,566
    Thanked in
    1,768 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by DannyInvincible View Post
    Why are there Union flags along the Quays? Something to do with Ireland's Presidency of the Council of the EU?

    Wouldn't the Union flag fly daily within the grounds of the British Embassy in Dublin? Pretty sure that's a Union flag it in the top left of this photo:

    The flags of all EU members are flying down the Quays in Dublin. I can't figure out the order in which they are though. I thought Alphebetical but it doesnt seem so.
    I'll check where the UJ is flying when I'm heading.

    There's a UJ at the Brit Ambassadors gaff in Carrickmines as well.
    DID YOU NOTICE A SIGN OUTSIDE MY HOUSE...?

  3. #63
    Reserves
    Joined
    May 2011
    Posts
    298
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    121
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    28
    Thanked in
    19 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Gather round View Post
    Look, you posted a witless gag, I answered it in similar style. Get over yourself.
    On the basis of this and previous posters he's clearly trying to be a WUM. Ignore fools like this is my advice.

  4. #64
    First Team Gather round's Avatar
    Joined
    Apr 2006
    Location
    West Midlands, England
    Posts
    2,044
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    106
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    221
    Thanked in
    170 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfman View Post
    On the basis of this and previous posters he's clearly trying to be a WUM. Ignore fools like this is my advice
    Morning Wolfie, long time no hear. All going well in Ardee?

  5. #65
    Reserves
    Joined
    May 2011
    Posts
    298
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    121
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    28
    Thanked in
    19 Posts
    What are you on about? Besides often making the same troll comments you have accused others of.

  6. #66
    Seasoned Pro
    Joined
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Black Earth, Russia
    Posts
    3,178
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    2,739
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    584
    Thanked in
    398 Posts
    I know this is probably going to annoy the ongoing debate on pedantics and skewed visions, though a regional governor in the Urals has decided that for all events the national anthem no longer needs to be played (before public meetings, parliament etc they play it, also all football, hockey, basketball etc). His reasoning is that it is not a re-iteration of national pride, as he believes too few people know the new lyrics. Now the guy has a point (he's in Sverdlovsk/Ekaterinaburg) though it has to be passed by a regional assembly. Forums are lighting up and oddly the anti-Putin protestors (Udaltsov and co) are raging against anti-Russian sentiment from lawmakers.

    Now, I'll qualify the above by saying, he's not saying rule it out altogether, just that it should be limited to set events where it will have meaning. I don't believe that it is too much different to the North, with a majority of people not really interested in the situation and a select group of anti-democratic protesters solely interested in increasing their own profile and furthering a dangerous agenda. I could be very wrong though.

  7. #67
    Coach BonnieShels's Avatar
    Joined
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Elm Valley, Blackpool
    Posts
    11,845
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    2,238
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,566
    Thanked in
    1,768 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by DannyInvincible View Post
    Enda Kenny announced in Philadelphia today that the Irish government is to hold a referendum as to whether to extend presidential election voting rights to Irish citizens living in the north and abroad: http://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0312/859...-patricks-day/



    A very positive development.


    Given that we have a thread for it...
    DID YOU NOTICE A SIGN OUTSIDE MY HOUSE...?

  8. #68
    International Prospect bennocelt's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Basel (Allschwil)
    Posts
    5,790
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    4,596
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    432
    Thanked in
    331 Posts
    Great, another referendum on something that's not important

  9. #69
    Capped Player DannyInvincible's Avatar
    Joined
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Derry
    Posts
    11,524
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    3,404
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3,738
    Thanked in
    2,284 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by BonnieShels View Post
    Given that we have a thread for it...
    I'd had a feeling there was already a thread on this. Indeed, here it is. Should have looked harder.

    Quote Originally Posted by bennocelt View Post
    Great, another referendum on something that's not important
    I think it's a positive step towards subverting partition and hopefully undoing the sense of abandonment felt by many northerners as a result of partition and the approach of the southern establishment to their northern compatriots ever since. Extending the vote to all citizens, be they from the north or south of Ireland, has great symbolic significance.

    The president is also the Irish nation's global representative. It is only fitting that all Irish nationals have a say in his or her appointment.

    Which were the other unimportant referenda, in your view?

  10. #70
    First Team Gather round's Avatar
    Joined
    Apr 2006
    Location
    West Midlands, England
    Posts
    2,044
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    106
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    221
    Thanked in
    170 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
    Enda Kenny announced in Philadelphia today that the Irish government is to hold a referendum as to whether to extend presidential election voting rights to Irish citizens living in the north and abroad: http://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0312/859...-patricks-day/

    A very positive development
    A few quick questions if I may:

    1 What's the realistic result- close, unpredictable or a big win for one side or the other?

    2 If it passes, how much will this increase the electorate? (Notionally by close to 100% if you include Northern Nationlists, maybe Unionist ****-takers, foreign-based citizens and people not currently registered but who can do so by formality?)

    3 Will people like me from that latter group have any direct cost to take part? (Such as buying a passport or a pint of green Guinness at Heathrow Airport?)

    4 If it fails, is continued partition inevitable for the foreseeable future?

    Victory to Vicious Sid (Votes for Irish Citizens in Orange-Unionist Sectarian Statelets in Denial)

  11. #71
    Coach BonnieShels's Avatar
    Joined
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Elm Valley, Blackpool
    Posts
    11,845
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    2,238
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,566
    Thanked in
    1,768 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Gather round View Post
    A few quick questions if I may:

    1 What's the realistic result- close, unpredictable or a big win for one side or the other?

    2 If it passes, how much will this increase the electorate? (Notionally by close to 100% if you include Northern Nationlists, maybe Unionist ****-takers, foreign-based citizens and people not currently registered but who can do so by formality?)

    3 Will people like me from that latter group have any direct cost to take part? (Such as buying a passport or a pint of green Guinness at Heathrow Airport?)

    4 If it fails, is continued partition inevitable for the foreseeable future?

    Victory to Vicious Sid (Votes for Irish Citizens in Orange-Unionist Sectarian Statelets in Denial)
    1. Unpredictable but will probably pass especially as this is an FG policy that FF, SF and Labour will be for.

    2. There are an estimated 1.8m citizens abroad (according to reports today) not including the six. It is only going to be for Presidential elections and I can imagine certain barriers being put in place but I have never seen figures for the amount that actually vote in overseas elections for other countries.

    3. I think proving your citizenship is the price which is fair enough. So off ya pop.

    4. Not connected at all.
    DID YOU NOTICE A SIGN OUTSIDE MY HOUSE...?

  12. #72
    Capped Player DannyInvincible's Avatar
    Joined
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Derry
    Posts
    11,524
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    3,404
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3,738
    Thanked in
    2,284 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Gather round View Post
    A few quick questions if I may:

    1 What's the realistic result- close, unpredictable or a big win for one side or the other?

    2 If it passes, how much will this increase the electorate? (Notionally by close to 100% if you include Northern Nationlists, maybe Unionist ****-takers, foreign-based citizens and people not currently registered but who can do so by formality?)

    3 Will people like me from that latter group have any direct cost to take part? (Such as buying a passport or a pint of green Guinness at Heathrow Airport?)

    4 If it fails, is continued partition inevitable for the foreseeable future?

    Victory to Vicious Sid (Votes for Irish Citizens in Orange-Unionist Sectarian Statelets in Denial)
    1) I'd be confident of it receiving comfortable-majority approval from the electorate. All main parties will support it.

    Chris Donnelly agrees: https://sluggerotoole.com/2017/03/12...ial-elections/

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Donnelly
    This is a move likely to be supported across the board by political parties within the southern state, though it will be interesting to see if some voices from inside and outside of the political class are raised in objection to extending the franchise.

    All strands of Irish nationalism in the north have long supported this move, not least during Belfast-born Mary McAleese’s 14-year tenure in office.
    2) Some info here that might be of assistance: http://www.globalirish.ie/issues/how...ean-factsheet/

    Quote Originally Posted by GlobalIrish.ie
    How many Irish people live abroad? A GlobalIrish.ie factsheet

    Estimating the size of the Irish community abroad is difficult. There are an estimated one million Irish-born people living abroad today; the number has been declining in recent years as outgoing migration as slowed and return migration increased.

    Where do the Irish-born live?

    Accurate figures are not always easy to come by. The following statistics are compiled from a number of national censuses, and refer to those born in the Republic of Ireland, unless stated otherwise.


    European statistics are more difficult to find. Statistics compiled for the Harvey Report in the 1990s show:

    • France 16,000
    • Germany 16,000
    • Belgium 10,000
    • Spain 8,000
    • Netherlands 4,040
    • Italy 2,000
    • Sweden 1,200
    • Denmark 1,020
    • Luxembourg 1,000
    • Austria 600
    • Greece 600
    • Portugal 250
    • Finland 144

    How large is the diaspora?

    There are an estimated 3 million Irish passport holders – many of these would be second- or third-generation Irish people. The total number in the diaspora, however, is much larger, but more difficult to estimate. While the census process in some nations allow people to specify where their ancestors came from, this can be contentious; controversy over the ‘ethnic question’ may call results into question.

    The total number has been put at 70 million by some sources. The following figures are census statistics from the nations with the highest numbers.

    • United States: 34.7 million reported Irish ancestry, according to the 2000 US Census statistic. 6 million reported Scotch-Irish ancestry.
    • Britain: Figures on the Irish diasporic community in Britain vary widely, from an estimate of 5 million with an Irish parent or grandparent (10% of the British population) in the 1991 census, to a total of 14 million (24% of the British population) in a 2001 study. 1.2% of people in England and Wales reported themselves to be of Irish ancestry in the 2001 census, although the ethnic question was highly contentious.
    • Canada: 3.48 million in the 2006 census (13% of the population).
    • Australia: 1.8 million reported Irish ancestry (2006 census) (9.1% of the population)
    • Argentina: About 350,000-500,000 Irish descendants are reported.

    For more information, visit the websites listed above and
    Irish Emigrants and Irish Communities Abroad: A study of existing sources of information and analysis for the Task Force on Policy regarding Emigrants.
    3) I assume possession of an Irish passport will be the means of proving one's eligibility to vote, so it'll probably just be the cost of your application; €80 through the express service. Further info here: https://www.dfa.ie/passports-citizen...passport-fees/

    And here, as you're living across the water: https://www.dfa.ie/passports-citizen...rt-express/#uk

    When are you applying?

    4) It could be perceived as a psychological blow, I'm sure. I'd be dismayed if it was rejected because southerners sought to give their northern compatriots the cold shoulder, although I'd be genuinely extremely surprised if things took such a turn. I don't see why a negative result would or should necessarily damage unity prospects though. I suppose you could interpret a negative result as a blow to the notion of national solidarity or a sentimental sense of unity, but it would be worth remembering that this is also about extending the vote to citizens living outside of Ireland, some of whom may never have been to Ireland in their lives. There may be people in the south who'd happily support political re-unification but who would take issue with extending a vote to, say, third-generation Irish citizens in the US or wherever who have never set foot in Ireland, so that may influence their decision rather than it being representative of a rejection or snub of northerners.

  13. #73
    First Team Gather round's Avatar
    Joined
    Apr 2006
    Location
    West Midlands, England
    Posts
    2,044
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    106
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    221
    Thanked in
    170 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by DannyInvincible View Post
    When are you applying?
    As you know I'm a pragmatist and may well apply for a Southern passport if I think I need one

    Isn't this just a kite-flying exercise? If the referendum passes and the new electorate is 'limited' to Irish-born, it'll **** off much of the diaspora; whereas if all six million potentially eligible in Britain plus those 144 Finns- 24 for every shamrock-themed bar last time I was in Helsinki- are eligible, then it looks not merely absurd to double or treble the numbers, but damaging to the office and even the state. You'd be paying millions for the equiv of a Buzzfeed survey on Facebook.

    Nobody will pay EU80 just to vote for a ceremonial Prez, but many might complain if the lack of a particular passport, or any at all, bars them.

  14. #74
    Capped Player DannyInvincible's Avatar
    Joined
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Derry
    Posts
    11,524
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    3,404
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3,738
    Thanked in
    2,284 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Gather round View Post
    Isn't this just a kite-flying exercise? If the referendum passes and the new electorate is 'limited' to Irish-born, it'll **** off much of the diaspora; whereas if all six million potentially eligible in Britain plus those 144 Finns- 24 for every shamrock-themed bar last time I was in Helsinki- are eligible, then it looks not merely absurd to double or treble the numbers, but damaging to the office and even the state. You'd be paying millions for the equiv of a Buzzfeed survey on Facebook.
    Why do you think it may damage the office and/or state? Because it may cost a lot or do you think it would undermine integrity in some way? Don't other states confer voting rights upon their citizens living abroad? In some cases, even for parliamentary elections and policy/constitutional referenda? Has it damaged them?

    Nobody will pay EU80 just to vote for a ceremonial Prez, but many might complain if the lack of a particular passport, or any at all, bars them.
    Perhaps birth documents or something else would suffice to prove entitlement. I have no idea. We'll have to wait and see.

  15. #75
    First Team Gather round's Avatar
    Joined
    Apr 2006
    Location
    West Midlands, England
    Posts
    2,044
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    106
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    221
    Thanked in
    170 Posts
    I was thinking less of the direct costs of the poll (which you could argue would be marginal as the vote would be happening anyway), more that if a large minority (or even majority) who don't live in the State vote differently from and with an impact on those who do, it not merely looks odd but creates real potential for bitter taxation/ representation rows.

    In short, a problem arises because you are both generous in offering nominal citizenship rights but have always pragmatically resisted giving them any real effect abroad in order to placate opinion at home.

    Given that this has been trailed for a few years now it's reasonable to expect that politicians and commentators should be able to answer the questions above, particularly on cost/ access, quite readily.
    Last edited by Gather round; 13/03/2017 at 3:54 PM.

  16. #76
    Capped Player DannyInvincible's Avatar
    Joined
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Derry
    Posts
    11,524
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    3,404
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3,738
    Thanked in
    2,284 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Gather round View Post
    I was thinking less of the direct costs of the poll (which you could argue would be marginal as the poll would be happening anyway), more that if a large minority (or even majority) who don't live in the State vote differently from and with an impact on those who do, it not merely looks odd but creates real potential for bitter taxation/ representation rows.
    I see. It's a fair point. That would have the potential to breed resentment, but referenda/elections can be (internally) divisive as they are; see Brexit or Trump, for example.

  17. #77
    Coach BonnieShels's Avatar
    Joined
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Elm Valley, Blackpool
    Posts
    11,845
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    2,238
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,566
    Thanked in
    1,768 Posts
    The passport is the only cast iron confirmation available to those born abroad to prove their citizenship. I don’t think it’s beyond the realm of those wishing to exercise their franchise in a different jurisdiction to show a passport. If they can’t be bothered then tough, the bellyaching is irrelevant. I mean, they can’t vote now so they’re hardly going to punish a sitting government. It’s not an argument to even consider.
    DID YOU NOTICE A SIGN OUTSIDE MY HOUSE...?

  18. #78
    First Team Gather round's Avatar
    Joined
    Apr 2006
    Location
    West Midlands, England
    Posts
    2,044
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    106
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    221
    Thanked in
    170 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by BonnieShels View Post
    The passport is the only cast iron confirmation available to those born abroad to prove their citizenship
    How's that? My birth certificate confirms my eligibility?

    I don’t think it’s beyond the realm of those wishing to exercise their franchise in a different jurisdiction to show a passport
    The problem isn't that it's beyond anyone's wit, but that it would be an unreasonable cost for some people.

    If they can’t be bothered then tough, the bellyaching is irrelevant. I mean, they can’t vote now so they’re hardly going to punish a sitting government. It’s not an argument to even consider
    You're half right. The can't be arsed (me, for example) can be ignored. The would be arsed if it doesn't impose that unreasonable cost are different.

  19. #79
    International Prospect osarusan's Avatar
    Joined
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Limerick for now.
    Posts
    7,325
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,120
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,530
    Thanked in
    841 Posts
    5 million new passports is 400 million quid.

    Plus say....a 'diaspora voters register' with registration fees of 50 quid. Another 250 million.

    Shrewd.

  20. Thanks From:


  21. #80
    Reserves
    Joined
    May 2011
    Posts
    298
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    121
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    28
    Thanked in
    19 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Gather round View Post
    A few quick questions if I may:

    1 What's the realistic result- close, unpredictable or a big win for one side or the other?

    2 If it passes, how much will this increase the electorate?

    3 Will people like me from that latter group have any direct cost to take part? (Such as buying a passport or a pint of green Guinness at Heathrow Airport?)

    4 If it fails, is continued partition inevitable for the foreseeable future?

    Victory to Vicious Sid (Votes for Irish Citizens in Orange-Unionist Sectarian Statelets in Denial)
    The Diaspora will 'win'.
    A lot as DI and osarusan have pointed out.
    You will have to get Irish citizenship(no European airport serves 'green Guinness' FFS, that's one for the Yanks).
    No, even you're not that stupid.

    And WTF has 'Sid Vicious' to do with this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gather round View Post
    As you know I'm a pragmatist and may well apply for a Southern passport if I think I need one
    Why would you want to become Korean? Their diversity of cuisine perhaps?

    Isn't this just a kite-flying exercise? If the referendum passes and the new electorate is 'limited' to Irish-born, it'll **** off much of the diaspora; whereas if all six million potentially eligible in Britain plus those 144 Finns- 24 for every shamrock-themed bar last time I was in Helsinki- are eligible, then it looks not merely absurd to double or treble the numbers, but damaging to the office and even the state. You'd be paying millions for the equiv of a Buzzfeed survey on Facebook.
    Even if this was true(It won't), why would you care? You keep telling us Ireland is some sort of failed state.

    And given your posts on here, I would pity the recipients of the equivalent on social media!

    Nobody will pay EU80 just to vote for a ceremonial Prez, but many might complain if the lack of a particular passport, or any at all, bars them.
    Except that's not the reason why they want a passport...

    Quote Originally Posted by Gather round View Post
    I was thinking less of the direct costs of the poll (which you could argue would be marginal as the vote would be happening anyway), more that if a large minority (or even majority) who don't live in the State vote differently from and with an impact on those who do, it not merely looks odd but creates real potential for bitter taxation/ representation rows.
    A bit like unionists in the North then...

    In short, a problem arises because you are both generous in offering nominal citizenship rights but have always pragmatically resisted giving them any real effect abroad in order to placate opinion at home.
    Given that this has been trailed for a few years now it's reasonable to expect that politicians and commentators should be able to answer the questions above, particularly on cost/ access, quite readily.
    It's really no big deal, which you would know if you were ever to go to Ireland.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gather round View Post
    How's that? My birth certificate confirms my eligibility?
    By getting a passport. You're very slow on this...

    The problem isn't that it's beyond anyone's wit, but that it would be an unreasonable cost for some people.
    Except you could say this about any country's citizens who can't afford a passport...

    You're half right. The can't be arsed (me, for example) can be ignored. The would be arsed if it doesn't impose that unreasonable cost are different.
    This makes no sense even for you!
    Last edited by Wolfman; 13/03/2017 at 5:00 PM.

Page 4 of 7 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. US Presidential Elections
    By Gaz in forum Current Affairs
    Replies: 457
    Last Post: 02/12/2008, 5:14 PM
  2. c.i.a. gains powers over irish citizens
    By ken foree in forum Off Topic
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: 03/08/2005, 7:43 PM
  3. How do you vote in elections?
    By Shelsman in forum Off Topic
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 14/06/2004, 8:50 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •