Petition for the Rights of all Citizens to Vote in Presidential Elections

[BonnieShels]

How's that? My birth certificate confirms my eligibility?

In your case it confirms your eligibility. But it's not you or your ilk that would have issues here. There's plenty of Nigerians or Argentine's or Finns who would have a higher burden. As they should.

But your birth cert does not in a lot of cases show your eligibility. Perhaps proof of your place on the foreign births register could well prove to be an option. But again there's ways and means why this may not have been done in the past and yet people may remain eligible for citizenship. Again, the passport comes in here as the cast-iron guarantee of your eligibility for those born outside of the island of Ireland.

The priority is to open the franchise up to other citizens without making a mockery of the robustness of our electoral system.

[DannyInvincible]

And right on cue, unionism responds to the Irish government's proposal to extend voting rights to northern-based Irish citizens and it's as depressingly uptight, defensive, resistive and disingenuous you'd expect: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39254792

Unionists have warned the Irish Government that no polling stations will be set up in Northern Ireland for future Irish presidential elections.

On Sunday, Taoiseach Enda Kenny announced plans to allow Irish citizens outside the Republic to vote in future presidential elections.

Ulster Unionist MP Tom Elliott said: "I don't want polling stations set up here in Northern Ireland.

"That would be imposing on the people of Northern Ireland."

First of all, nothing is to be imposed. It is simply the extension of a choice. If unionists, or anyone else in the north for that matter, wish to opt out, boycott or ignore the whole thing, they're fully free to do so and they can continue with living their lives unaffected and as normal.

Secondly, can unionists impose a veto on the setting up of polling stations north of the border? The Irish government could surely rent out private spaces in which to set up polling stations rather than having to rely on the provision of public spaces by the northern government, no?

Thirdly, who on earth does Tom Elliott think he is? Just because he doesn't want something, doesn't mean other people must also be deprived of it. How utterly imperious and narcissistic. For Tom, it seems that nationalists can have their rights, but just so long as those rights don't offend his unionist sensibilities...

[osarusan]

Secondly, can unionists impose a veto on the setting up of polling stations north of the border? The Irish government could surely rent out private spaces in which to set up polling stations rather than having to rely on the provision of public spaces by the northern government, no?

It wouldn't surprise me if the Irish government would need permission from the NI/UK government to conduct its business there, to be honest. Apart from embassies at least. It is their country after all.

As far as I know, most absentee voting is done by post. I don't think there is anywhere that UK citizens in Ireland can 'go' to vote - they do it by post or by proxy.

[Wolfman]

The latter point is correct in British elections.

And similarly for certain Irish citizens in Seanad elections.

[BonnieShels]

Australia set up polling stations in their embassies.

Obviously not an issue for us in Belfast.

I'm just shocked it was Tom Elliot because he has always shown restraint when it comes to such matters.

[DannyInvincible]

Australia set up polling stations in their embassies.

Obviously not an issue for us in Belfast.

Does the Irish government/state have any diplomatic or ambassadorial-type presence or space in Belfast, or elsewhere north of the border for that matter? I'm not aware that it does.

I'm just shocked it was Tom Elliot because he has always shown restraint when it comes to such matters.

Ha!

[BonnieShels]

WE have office space and a residence used by our BI Council staff (in Stranmillis I think). We have no consulates for obvious political reasons; that the political reasons are from a nationalist POV rather than not wanting to upset Unionists.

I remember Reg Empey was complaining that we hadn't opened a consuulate "like we had in other UK cities". Jog on Reg!

There was talk post-GFA about setting up a Passport Office in Belfast but that went quiet.

[backstothewall]

A postal vote would have done me fine but i sincerely hope a polling station is set up in every decent sized town in the north now. Tom Elliott can stick his opinions up his arse.

[BonnieShels]

Well they had no objections when the Poles set them up in 2010...

or when it was used in the European elections in 2009...

or when it was used in the Polish Parliamentary elections in 2006...

...The station is based at the offices of the Chinese Welfare Association at Stranmillis Embankment in Belfast.
The polling station has been organised by an electoral committee appointed by the Polish Consulate in Edinburgh.
Eva Grosman, chair of the Polish Electoral Commission in Northern Ireland, said anyone wishing to vote would need to register either through the Polish Consulate in Edinburgh or by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Poland website.
"There's a large Polish community here in Northern Ireland, we've an established number of about 30,000," Ms Grosman said.
"However, just something in the region of 1,000 people did register and express their willingness to vote in the presidential elections.
"This number indicates that perhaps some people are more involved in Northern Irish politics since many more took part in elections here in Northern Ireland rather than the Polish ones."
Registration closes at midnight on Thursday.
To be eligible to vote, you need to have registered, to be over 18 and hold a Polish passport.
This facility has been offered before on two occasions, for last year's European Elections and four years ago for the Polish Parliamentary election.

http://www.bbc.com/news/10334739

It's almost like it was a sectarian comment from poor oul Tommy.


That may be harsh from me I mean, it's not as if he's ever said things before that would be deemed as inappropriate...

The Ulster Unionist leader Tom Elliott has hit out at people waving Irish tricolours at the Omagh election count, describing them as the "scum of Sinn Fein".
He referred to the tricolour as "the flag of a foreign nations".
He was speaking at the end of the count for the Fermanagh-South Tyrone constituency where he won a seat for his party yesterday.
The Omagh leisure centre was also the venue for the West Tyrone count.
"I see many people here with flags here, many of them flags of a foreign nation," he said.
When he was heckled by some in the crowd, he said that he would expect nothing better from "the scum of Sinn Fein".

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-13323770

[osarusan]

Well they had no objections when the Poles set them up in 2010...

or when it was used in the European elections in 2009...

or when it was used in the Polish Parliamentary elections in 2006...

So there is a precedent for it in NI.

I still imagine permission is needed though - but this precedent makes a refusal more difficult to justify.

[BonnieShels]

I can imagine permission would probably be needed. But I highly doubt it would ever be refused. I mean they're unlikely to host it in a building on Sandy Row.

Anyway it's all moot... by the time 2025 rolls around we will have had our border poll.

[Gather round]

Anyway it's all moot... by the time 2025 rolls around we will have had our border poll

I mean they're unlikely to host it in a building on Sandy Row

It's moot not because there'll be a united Ireland within eight years (there won't) but because the South has never given citizens outside the state the vote (and just might continue not to do so, for well established reasons). Let's see after the referendum.

Further ahead, this isn't really about precedent, more that it'll be seen as a provocative windup in way that helping Poles vote for Szczecin Council wouldn't be.

If there isn't a poll station in Sandy Row (or writ large, Bangor/ Carrick/ Banbridge/ Coleraine) is it worth getting annoyed about? Just post/ email it in.

[DannyInvincible]

WE have office space and a residence used by our BI Council staff (in Stranmillis I think).

Interesting; I wasn't aware of this. Have you any further info? Is it definitely in Stranmillis? I can't find any mention of it online.

[DannyInvincible]

Further ahead, this isn't really about precedent, more that it'll be seen as a provocative windup in way that helping Poles vote for Szczecin Council wouldn't be.

That it will be seen in such a way says more about those who will view it so than those who may wish to facilitate northern-based Irish nationals or those Irish nationals in the north who may wish to participate in the election of their president.

[BonnieShels]

Interesting; I wasn't aware of this. Have you any further info? Is it definitely in Stranmillis? I can't find any mention of it online.

Not 100% it's in Stranmillis. But I recall that was where I thought it was a few years back. I checked the BI Council yday and found nothing myself.

[Gather round]

That it will be seen in such a way says more about those who will view it so than those who may wish to facilitate northern-based Irish nationals or those Irish nationals in the north who may wish to participate in the election of their president

Indeed. We've long known that Unionist politicians often rely on being defensive against the real/ perceived Nationalist bogeyman (or paranoia, as one of our regulars calls it).

Any guesses on how comfortably the referendum will pass- 51/49, 60/40, 80/20?

[Wolfman]

It's moot not because there'll be a united Ireland within eight years (there won't) but because the South has never given citizens outside the state the vote (and just might continue not to do so, for well established reasons). Let's see after the referendum.

Except they have.

Further ahead, this isn't really about precedent, more that it'll be seen as a provocative windup in way that helping Poles vote for Szczecin Council wouldn't be.

More red fish.

Indeed. We've long known that Unionist politicians often rely on being defensive against the real/ perceived Nationalist bogeyman (or paranoia, as one of our regulars calls it).

Any guesses on how comfortably the referendum will pass- 51/49, 60/40, 80/20?

They are totally paranoid in the main. And hopefully by 1690 votes!

[BonnieShels]

Interesting; I wasn't aware of this. Have you any further info? Is it definitely in Stranmillis? I can't find any mention of it online.

So yeah tis in Salubrious Malone/Stranmillis on Notting Hill. Incidentally you can't do street view on google on that street. But from aerial photos I would wager it's the new build at the bottom of the cul-de-sac backing onto the US consulate.

https://goo.gl/maps/fd4JreyvXsB2

See here also...

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news...-26341578.html

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/empey...fast-1.1032896

[DannyInvincible]

Well they had no objections when the Poles set them up in 2010...

or when it was used in the European elections in 2009...

or when it was used in the Polish Parliamentary elections in 2006...



http://www.bbc.com/news/10334739

It's almost like it was a sectarian comment from poor oul Tommy.

Armagh also hosted a polling station (using booths and desks borrowed from the NI Electoral Office) for Bulgarian citizens living in the north last November so as to allow them to vote in the most recent Bulgarian presidential election: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-37912120

The race to the White House is not the only presidential election taking place right now.

Bulgarians too are in the process of picking a new leader.

Nearly 7m people will go to the polls, including about 2,000 currently living in or visiting Ireland.

In Northern Ireland, the only polling station is in Armagh. On Sunday, it hosted a steady stream of Bulgarian voters anxious to have their say in the first round of what is shaping up to be quite a drawn-out process.

Rumen Radev won the first round, just ahead of ruling party candidate Tsetska Tsacheva and they will now have a run-off on Sunday.

So how has it come to be that votes cast in an Armagh community centre can influence an election so far away?

Valentina Stefanova is a Bulgarian who has been living and working in Armagh for several years.

She helped organise the polling station there, along with government representative Anastaya Milenova who jetted in from Sofia to oversee the count.

Ms Stefanova said that, while they have no official figures, they believe as many as 500 Bulgarians are living in the Armagh/Banbridge/Craigavon area and, with no postal voting system in operation, it is important that they are given their chance to have their say.

The only other polling stations in Ireland are in the Bulgarian embassy in Dublin and at Shannon.

The booths and desks were borrowed from Northern Ireland's electoral office, but there was one key difference in the ballot boxes themselves.

Bulgarian law insists that these are see-through, so out went the familiar black boxes we all know so well.

The votes cast in Armagh were also counted there before the figure was verified and sent on to Sofia.

[DannyInvincible]

Slugger O'Toole commentator David McCann feels the referendum to extend the vote in presidential elections to northern citizens should be used as a testing ground and learning enterprise for nationalists/republicans who will be arguing for Irish unity when the time comes for that referendum: https://sluggerotoole.com/2017/03/19...e-border-poll/

This vote is a chance for those wanting a border poll to test arguments and tease out voters in Southern Ireland’s desire for all island politics. It will also serve as a useful training ground for understanding a potential No side in a future referendum.

Arguments around the structure of the Irish state, who is viewed as a part of that state and what rights should be given across the island will all chime with arguments about a United Ireland.

Nationalists across the island should park the drive for an immediate border poll and focus all of their energies on getting the Presidential voting rights referendum over the line. The cool reaction in some quarters to this proposal shows that a Yes campaign will have a fight on its hands and the ability to come up with clear and convincing arguments for this proposal will be useful for future electoral battles.

As he looked back on the success of the Vote Leave campaign, Chief Executive Matthew Elliott noted how he used the No to AV campaign in 2012 as a warm up act for a potential referendum on the EU down the track. Working on voting reform helped him understand attitudes and how to win people over to your side of the argument. Many of the top figures in the successful No to AV campaign went onto to run the Vote Leave campaign.

The training they received in 2012, paid dividends for their campaign in 2016.

People who seek a border poll need to view the Presidential voting rights referendum in the same way.

The approaches, arguments and organisation will have synergies across the electoral campaigns. It is important to learn about people’s concerns and then find arguments that put them at ease.