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Thread: James Collins (F Luton b.1990)

  1. #81
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    Long hasn't spent much time down there but had one cracking season with Reading that earned his move to West Brom under Hodgson which accounts for over half. I just checked and the other goals are spread across two seasons in between his first and his last there. His first was amazing really. He went from one first team appearance with Cork City to getting 3 goals in the Championship for Reading at 18.

    This is just Collins' second season at this level.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snapshot View Post
    Collins doesn't get the credit he deserves. There seems a certain bias against him. If Maguire or O'Dowda or boy wonder Troy Parrott (had) scored as many Championship goals they'd be touted as WC starters. Collins is no Aguero or Calvert-Lewin, but he scores goals at a level more than good enough for our current standard. Maybe, to use that superfluous and snobby term, he's not "technically gifted" but if he gets the job done - i.e. he puts the little round thing in the net - he's good enough and deserves to be recognised as such.
    If he put the little round thing in the net for Ireland he'd get the credit, its simple enough. Hes in his 30's, he needs be making the most of his chances for Ireland.

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    I would have thought Robinson was well ahead of Collins for the centre forward position to be honest. Fair enough, Collins has scored a reasonable number of goals in the Championship, but Robinson has previously done that to the extent that he's a premier division player now. It would seem surprising to punish him for moving up a division, I actually think he has played well in a team that were always going to struggle in the Premier League.

    I'd be amazed if Collins ever reaches the level that Robinson is already at to be honest.
    Keane O'Shea Given Best Long Cox

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    Collins was competent against Bulgaria but otherwise has looked out of his depth in appearances for us. And this at a time when he is peaking at club level. He is not going to improve from here out, there is no upside in him. Long would be my preference as he is suited to the 9 role but there is a future and potential in other options to the extent Collins really shouldn’t be a squad consideration, let alone a starter.

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  6. #85
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    I do wonder if the selection of Long would be a bit of a nostalgia call based on what he was like as a player three or four years ago. He has hardly had a kick at Southampton all season, just substitute minutes here and there. It's good that he has gone on loan, hopefully we can see where he is really at in the next month or so. If he doesn't show up well at Bournemouth, who play decent football and are one of the better teams in the division, I don't think he can be considered a realistic option for us really. Of course, if he plays well and scores a few goals he deserves to come back into contention.
    Keane O'Shea Given Best Long Cox

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    Sure, Long has seen better days. But he works as a target and he's mobile enough to make runs in behind/ down the channels. And that tireless energy about him is something we have been missing. It's not pretty but there is joy to be had in pressuring defences into making mistakes - which Long does. He's not for the long term but with his experience, he is our best option until other options "mature".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eirambler View Post
    I would have thought Robinson was well ahead of Collins for the centre forward position to be honest. Fair enough, Collins has scored a reasonable number of goals in the Championship, but Robinson has previously done that to the extent that he's a premier division player now. It would seem surprising to punish him for moving up a division, I actually think he has played well in a team that were always going to struggle in the Premier League.

    I'd be amazed if Collins ever reaches the level that Robinson is already at to be honest.
    So you'll be amazed with this easy solution - play both of them!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ifk101 View Post
    Collins was competent against Bulgaria but otherwise has looked out of his depth in appearances for us. And this at a time when he is peaking at club level. He is not going to improve from here out, there is no upside in him. Long would be my preference as he is suited to the 9 role but there is a future and potential in other options to the extent Collins really shouldn’t be a squad consideration, let alone a starter.
    Ridiculous comment. Collins has scored ten goals in the C'ship and you say he shouldn't even make the squad. A player scoring regularly in the Championship is well capable of scoring against Luxembourg, Azerbaijan and even Serbia. That's six games in which the top Irish goalscorer in the first two tiers of English football is capable of being a scorer. Are you aware Ireland hasn't scored a goal in seven games?

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  11. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snapshot View Post
    A player scoring regularly in the Championship is well capable of scoring against Luxembourg, Azerbaijan and even Serbia.
    .. and Bulgaria? He had a few scoring chances against Bulgaria but didn't take them. Hasn't shown much to suggest his lower league scoring prowess makes him a capable international striker, how ridiculous this comment may be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ifk101 View Post
    Sure, Long has seen better days. But he works as a target and he's mobile enough to make runs in behind/ down the channels. And that tireless energy about him is something we have been missing. It's not pretty but there is joy to be had in pressuring defences into making mistakes - which Long does. He's not for the long term but with his experience, he is our best option until other options "mature".
    Collins' goals were scored over this season and last season. An Irish player scoring 21 Championship goals at a time Ireland can't score even one in seven games - and he's not a starter in the team? Someone else here says he's not even good enough for the squad! Unbelievable! He's not elite - but he's Irish, he's an option, he's scoring and he's 30.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ifk101 View Post
    .. and Bulgaria? He had a few scoring chances against Bulgaria but didn't take them. Hasn't shown much to suggest his lower league scoring prowess makes him a capable international striker, how ridiculous this comment may be.
    Is the Championship the "lower league" you reference? God help us if only Premiership goals are good enough for Ireland these days. If Collins is dismissed because of one game - where does that leave our current manager after eight shockers in nine games? Please.

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    Collins could have scored 4 in the 0-0 v Bulgaria. There was the Curtis shot which was deflected, if he was able to touch that it was in. Similarly the Brady free kick where if he touches it with his head, it’s a goal. Then there was the header from a Horgan cross, which he really should have scored. Finally there was the volley from an O’Shea cross which he took pretty well but put it wide.

    With those chances, Bamford probably scores a hat trick. I think you give Collins credit for getting in the right areas, that’s a good sign. But at international level, you’d expect him to have scored 1 at least.

    Frankly, there aren’t any good options between Collins, Long, Maguire, Hogan, Idah, Parrott, Obafemi. Three aren’t yet at the required level. Long is probably past it but we’ll know more with regular game time. Collins is a lower league striker. Maguire is a confidence striker, being played out of position and lacking confidence. Hogan is similarly a form player who hasn’t done anything at international level.

    I’m not sure if I’ve seen Robinson play much as a lone central striker. I suspect Kenny views him more as a winger.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snapshot View Post
    So you'll be amazed with this easy solution - play both of them!
    I'm not sure that works either - Collins can only really play the central role and you're probably going to want to play Connolly on the left. That means putting Robinson out on the right which isn't his position - he should be central or left. I don't think Collins is good enough that we should be shifting players out of position to accommodate him. Personally I'd go

    Connolly---Robinson---Brady

    as the front three with three hard working midfielders behind them.

    The other point I'd make on Collins is that if you take out his goals from penalties he's averaging 7 goals a season since he has gone up to the Championship, not prolific by any means. By all means have him in the squad if it's between him and the likes of Maguire and O'Brien, but I wouldn't be starting him if we have a full squad to choose from.
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    Bamford has two hat tricks in his career - in form or not, do you really think he'd score three of those chances on his international debut?

    Interestingly enough, they have almost exactly the same career scoring record - Collins has 178 goals in 502 career games, or 0.35458 goals per game, Bamford has 100 goals in 282 games, or 0.35460 goals per game

    *values taken from wikipedia
    Bamford: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patric...eer_statistics
    Collins: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_...eer_statistics
    Last edited by tetsujin1979; 09/02/2021 at 4:25 PM.
    All goals, yellow and red cards tweeted in real time on twitter and facebook

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    Quote Originally Posted by ifk101 View Post
    .. and Bulgaria? He had a few scoring chances against Bulgaria but didn't take them. Hasn't shown much to suggest his lower league scoring prowess makes him a capable international striker, how ridiculous this comment may be.
    Well... apart from scoring fifteen minutes after coming on for his international debut against... er... Bulgaria

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    Quote Originally Posted by elatedscum View Post
    Collins could have scored 4 in the 0-0 v Bulgaria. There was the Curtis shot which was deflected, if he was able to touch that it was in. Similarly the Brady free kick where if he touches it with his head, it’s a goal. Then there was the header from a Horgan cross, which he really should have scored. Finally there was the volley from an O’Shea cross which he took pretty well but put it wide.

    With those chances, Bamford probably scores a hat trick. I think you give Collins credit for getting in the right areas, that’s a good sign. But at international level, you’d expect him to have scored 1 at least.

    Frankly, there aren’t any good options between Collins, Long, Maguire, Hogan, Idah, Parrott, Obafemi. Three aren’t yet at the required level. Long is probably past it but we’ll know more with regular game time. Collins is a lower league striker. Maguire is a confidence striker, being played out of position and lacking confidence. Hogan is similarly a form player who hasn’t done anything at international level.

    I’m not sure if I’ve seen Robinson play much as a lone central striker. I suspect Kenny views him more as a winger.
    You're right - we are struggling for quality - so we should use the best of our mediocre lot - and Collins has scored 21 Championship goals over last season and this season (to date). He is also an excellent penalty taker, which should not be counted as a minus, as someone suggests above. If he had played against Slovakia we'd likely be in the Euro finals. This guy scores against the same opposition faced by our other Championship mediocrity - against the same defences, same formations, same hard hoofers etc. Yet, somehow his goals are treated as those of a lesser god. Very strange that.

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    Apologies if I'm missing something, tetsujin1979, but what's your point? Would you not have Bamford (if he agreed) and/or Collins in the team?

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    That I doubt he'd have scored a hat trick against Bulgaria

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    Quote Originally Posted by tetsujin1979 View Post
    That I doubt he'd have scored a hat trick against Bulgaria
    He would have been very capable of a hat-trick against that ordinary Bulgarian defence. His main obstacle would have been the poverty of supply from a clueless Irish midfield. Bamford scored a top quality hat-trick this season against a Villa defence (Cash, Konsa, Mings, Targett) way above what Bulgaria fielded. He would be a fantastic addition to this feeble Irish team. We need to keep trying for him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snapshot View Post
    Yet, somehow his goals are treated as those of a lesser god. Very strange that.
    But he has been given chances in an Irish jersey to show what he can do. Why persist with a player that has peaked and that peak isn't good enough for international football? See the Georgia game as example. He failed to hold the ball up, failed to link play with his team mates, and clearly showed he lacks the mobility for the lone striker/ 9 role. Offered nothing in the Switzerland game, he fluffed his lines when given the chance to shoot at goal. I thought he was ok in NL game against Bulgaria - but he didn't score when given the chances. There's no suggestion in what we had seen so far that is capable of offering more than huff and puff. So good for him that he is scoring goals at his club. But his performances in an Irish jersey have been underwhelming (at a time when his club scoring form is good).

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