It's funny, I read about our dearth of players and the lack of quality available to Trap. While our squad has dropped in terms of talent with the loss of Duff, Given and the forced exclusion of others, I truly don't think we have had so many top level (by which im referring to EPL first-team) players available to us since Charlton 86-94. We also have some very good Championship players. Our talent pool is arguably bigger than it has ever been. When I look at the players we don't pick, i feel we aren't making the best use of the players at our disposal. This coupled with the system and the way we are instructed to play doesn't make for pleasurable viewing and guarantees poor performances.
The loss of Duff and others plus the loss of form of some means that this will become more commonplace and I fear a torrid campaign with Trap at the helm. The biggest reason for that is not the (probably) borderline selection issues I mentioned above (though I do believe it does have a significant impact not having certain players there), it's probably not even the system, it's actually the publicly stated and constantly reinforced notion of Traps that we do not have players capable of showing, trapping and passing.
While we are not the technically most gifted talent pool in town, I think it does our talent pool a great disservice to a) believe that and b) communicate that publicly in interviews and privately in the selection of Paul Green ahead of Darron Gibson (easiest example). It was one of the first things Trap said in interviews and while some were captivated by his experience and therefore accepting these statements, i was shaking my head in disgust and disagreement. I knew then that he didnt truly appreciate the opportunity he had and that things would turn sour.
Why should our players have faith in a manager who fundamentally has no faith in them? And why should the Irish fans continue to buy this guff?
Last edited by SkStu; 08/09/2012 at 4:11 AM.
I like high energy football. A little bit rock and roll. Many finishes instead of waiting for the perfect one.
Good post.Originally Posted by SkStu
The match today really upset me and I'm veering away from being a Trap supporter. At the same time, things could be a lot worse. with another manager.
Don't know if that stat's true or not, but all our Premiership players are mundane ones. The days of Harte, Kelly (CL semi-finalists), Roy Keane, Denis Irwin (CL winners) or Damien Duff (Premiership winner) are long gone. That's half a team right there of quality far, far in excess of what we have at the moment. I don't think it's a valid comparison saying that we've more top-flight players now than in 94; we're considerably weaker than at any time in the last 25 years, I think.
On a side note, does anyone else think Keiren Westwood looks like Andy Townsend? Bit disconcerting to see the ball going towards goal and having a panic moment - "What the *@!* is Townsend doing in nets?!"
Westwood & Townsend: yes.
We've a pool of players almost entirely trained and developed in a kick and rush league when the rest of the continent's academies have developed beyond that level being acceptable. Our players individual talent, even removing the coach and tactics for a moment were inferior to the kazakh's last night, thats how bad its gotten. They have players who are comfortable in possession, we have players who were trained from a young age to get rid of the ball as soon as they receive it. It's a problem that runs deeper than just Trap.
3 points.
We got the maximum amount of points on offer.
On a plastic pitch.
In flippin' Kazahkstan.
Who gives a monkey's how we did it.
On to the next.
The Beautiful Game
Exactly. It was so predictible that my mate's 6 year old son turned to us and asked "why do Ireland keep kicking it up to Walters and not give it the wingers?" I mean if a young fella just getting in to football can see that, lads playing for top European clubs won't have much difficulty, let alone lads playing in Kazakhstan. Ridiculous stuff.
Sadly this is so true. British and Irish players are so technically inferior on the whole to the continent. England can get by because they have such a big pool of talent to pick from that they will always produce top players. However, they pale so badly compared to the Germans and Spanish etc.
To be fair, the Welsh have been producing some lovely players like Bale, Ramsey and Allen over the last few years. Maybe it's just a very good batch coming through like we've had in the past, or they have good coaches there. Whatever they're doing, they are definitely getting some top young talents through that I'm fairly envious of.
Wales are a bottom seed for this campaign lets not forget, below even the Faroes. Bale is a fairly straightforward hit and run type winger, he stands out not because he's exceptionally technical but he's very good at playing that simple game. Ramsey doesn't look like he'll amount to much and appears to be struggling at the moment. Allen though is a very good player and far more technically gifted that the typical player in that league, the Swansea development of players would appear to be different from the norm. Arsenal probably are as well but unfortunately we don't have players at either.
4G Astro' surely, better than some grass pitches.
Why does the venue matter?
Did you see the game? Ireland were awful. And very very lucky.
And it's 'monkeys'
How long have Ireland known we were going to be playing on Astroturf?
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I hope we end up looking back on the result in the same manner we looked at the first game away to Armenia in the last campaign. Kaz looked decent but then again we made them look decent. They may well cause the likes of Faroes, Austria and maybe Sweden some trouble away.
I was very much in the pro Trap camp but on my way out of there now. Its not just the personnel and crazy selections ie playing strikers on the wing. BUt its not just personell changes that are required. We had a lad who has proven in the EPL that he is well able to pass the ball and impose himself in midfield. However, McCarthy was anonymous as the likes of Whelan and Andrews have been previously. Its a tactical change that is needed. The very very rare time we worked the ball, we created some opportunities. Cox and Walters combined well on the left in the first half and a good solid pass from Whelan to set Doyle on his run which led to the penalty.
We need to focus on changes in our tactics and how we work the ball up the field more so than calling for X, Y and Z to be in the team. Having the likes of McCarthy in the XI is a step in the right direction but personell changes alone are insufficient without a change in tactic.
Also very worrying to concede the goal like we did. Very very poor defending which is sloppy and shows signs of poor preparation. Dunne is vital in that regard.
On a plus side, Westwood played very well and looked very assured.
Whatever about at home to Germany, in reality a draw out of that game would be a bonus. Its the match away to Faroes that I fear now.
There's always some truth in the saying that the points are all that matter. I'm delighted we have the win. Anything else means we'd likely have to make up ground against Sweden and Austria whereas with every win there's margin for error down the line.
But, going into this game we wanted evidence that the team could show signs of eradicating obvious weaknesses. If anything, these weaknesses have got worse. The weaknesses include off the field stuff too. The manager's lack of faith in our ability to play football, his lack of faith in wingers playing on the wing, his insistence on playing square pegs in round holes. That's why there's so much despair. We've been looking for signs that we can turn a corner. There are no signs.
On another point, may I first state my opinion that I think both Gibson and McClean are out of order with their attitude. However, I think the media are actually being relatively restrained in their attacks on Trap's man management issues despite what semed to be a concerted dig this week. A lot of the UK media, many of whom were in Sopot with access to the team, are hinting that this is a very unhappy dressing room (today's Times for example). I think they know more than they're letting on. One UK reporter we all know from TV told a mate of mine out there that there were tensions in the camp.
I agree with Elroy except I think the Kazakhs deserve credit for the goal. It's hard to see how an Irish defender could have got to the ball first. OK, more pressure on the man maybe, but almost every headed goal conceded can be described as bad defending if you're looking for fault.
More like anyone who is sad and pathetic enough to pick the bones out of a win, like anyone on here actually knows better than Trap. The lot of you make me laugh. Keyboard experts.. 3 points ladies. 3 points.
The Beautiful Game
It's true that the number of professional players we have in England has never been higher but they're a very very modest bunch. I wouldn't make much fuss about not have Irish players in the top 4 clubs given how many top class foreign players now play in the EPL, it's actually amazing how many players we have to choose from.
However the damning fact is that players from Armenia and Kazakhstan are better technically.
Last night was the first time I almost felt disappointed that Ireland won a game!
Until Doyle came on there wasn't a single Irish player who played with any conviction or heart.
We had this situation before when Giles resigned after the first World cup qualifier for the 1982 World Cup. Ireland had just beaten Cyprus ( a very poor team at that time) 3-2 away. Giles to his credit resigned after the game. A team with good players had slowly but surely deteriorated under Giles straight jacket management. The tactics differed from Trapatonni's in that everything had to go through Giles who was player manager. It slowed the team down and began to strangle players like Brady. Hand took over and although not a very good manager he allowed the team to play with more freedom. Immediately we improved and went on to beat Holland 2-1 and draw with Belgium 1-1 before eventually losing out on goal difference to Belgium for second spot. We also beat France 3-2 in that group. With virtually the same players we became a transformed team due to a new direction/outlook from a new manager.
Last edited by Noelys Guitar; 08/09/2012 at 5:48 PM.
One hundred per cent spot on post.
You nailed it. The Kazak players were technically better than ours, and you're right, it has gotten that bad.
And it's not Trap's fault either - although he exacerbates the situation by allowing his players to play like mindless cavemen. Two things to remember - that level of performance would never be accepted by the clubs the Irish players play for and furthermore, Trap promised that he would start afresh after the Euros, did he not?
My understanding was that we were going to get the ball on the deck and pass it - did anyone else get that impression?
And one other thing, and this is key! We all remember the hue and cry by the British football public following the Euros. There was talk of a change in the way the game was going to be coached in England. But nothing has happened since. At least it hasn't been reported. And so it's back to the good old EPL and our fantasy football and those who pretended to care about the lack of technical ability of the footballers in thes islands, care no longer.
We'll be singing the same old song in 50 years time, because no one does anything about it.
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