Kazakhstan V Republic of Ireland - Friday, 7th September 2012 - World Cup 2014 Q

[Supreme feet]

If the following changes were made, it wouldn't look so bad:

Clark for O'Dea. Similar kinds of players, and although O'Dea has been OK for us, Clark is younger and has more potential for improvement and career progression.
Meyler for McShane. Re-assign JOB to cover right-back, Meyler to compete for a midfield spot.
Hoolahan for Keogh. No-brainer.

Still, the playing pool still looks a bit bare. We badly need Duffy, Brady and Cunningham to come good, Coleman to get a run of games at RB for Everton, Dunne to stay on for the next 18 months, and no serious injuries.

[Diarmo]

Not a bad squad. Surprised to see Wilson in there. Let's see if he turns up.

What I'd love to see is after the Kazakhstan game, some of the senior players (O'Shea, Keane, Whelan etc.) are released from the Oman friendly.

Then, Trap could call up UK-based players for the London friendly. Hoolahan, Clark, Meyler maybe. These guys certainly wouldn't feature in Kazakhstan, so there's no point dragging them out there. London is only a short trip.

[swinfordfc]

Cant understand why ye want Clark in the panel, he very poor

[Supreme feet]

As I've said in another thread, he has more potential in terms of ability and career progression than O'Dea. Not going to make a great difference to the squad, in fairness, but it's important to recognise talented young players, especially when they're playing at a higher level than some squad incumbents. Clark has shown enough talent at Villa in the last 18 months to warrant inclusion in our squad, which, in case you haven't noticed, is not exactly laden with promising young defenders.

[ped_ped]

Westwood, Coleman, McCarthy, McClean, Long . . . potential there. Two budding wingers, a prospective top-class striker and an actual decent ball-playing midfielder!

[swinfordfc]

As I've said in another thread, he has more potential in terms of ability and career progression than O'Dea. Not going to make a great difference to the squad, in fairness, but it's important to recognise talented young players, especially when they're playing at a higher level than some squad incumbents. Clark has shown enough talent at Villa in the last 18 months to warrant inclusion in our squad, which, in case you haven't noticed, is not exactly laden with promising young defenders.

Have you seen him the last 2 games for Villa - i would not have him on my junior team - let alone the Irish panel! He is just not a defender, end of.

[Supreme feet]

I've seen him play plenty of times over the last couple of seasons, and games like yesterday seem to be the exception. He's usually pretty solid, looked good on his international debut too. Are we really going to start writing young players off after a couple of ropey games? We need Clark to come good, we have very few long-term defensive options.

[tetsujin1979]

I've seen him play plenty of times over the last couple of seasons, and games like yesterday seem to be the exception. He's usually pretty solid, looked good on his international debut too. Are we really going to start writing young players off after a couple of ropey games? We need Clark to come good, we have very few long-term defensive options.

really? Cunningham, Duffy, Coleman all under 25.

[swinfordfc]

And i see Roy Curtis is writing his crap in the paper that Trap has to named Clark in his panel because he play central defence yestarday, its a shame Curtis didn't watch the game. If Dunne leaves to go to Stoke, then Villa will go down and finish bottom of the premiership if Clark is one of the central back for the season. He was at fault for the West Ham goal as well, if away the free in the first place and then jump into 2 more villa players and then let the ball slide backwards off his head.

[IsMiseSean]

And i see Roy Curtis is writing his crap in the paper

Roy Cuntis is just a glorified barstooler. I stopped taking notice of that man years ago. He's articles are poor nonsense.
I don't know how he still has a job.... In fact the whole newspaper is absolute muck!!

[ped_ped]

And i see Roy Curtis is writing his crap in the paper that Trap has to named Clark in his panel because he play central defence yestarday, its a shame Curtis didn't watch the game. If Dunne leaves to go to Stoke, then Villa will go down and finish bottom of the premiership if Clark is one of the central back for the season. He was at fault for the West Ham goal as well, if away the free in the first place and then jump into 2 more villa players and then let the ball slide backwards off his head.

Relegated or not, if Clark plays CB or most of this season I'll be happy! Would give him a chance to grow and mature, too.

[Murfinator]

Its get a bit tiring after every squad announcement theres always the complaints that X should have been called up because he's playing for mediocre premiership team. Seems to be people who genuinely believe a starter for team A is indiscriminately a better choice to call up than a starter for team B when A is a better team than B regardless of any number of other variables at play.
I've seen nothing at any level in two years to justify calling up Clark so Trap is perfectly correct not to. It may ruffle some peoples feathers that an MLS player is being selected ahead of a premiership starter but O'Dea is the better player by a mile right now.

[the bear]

Its get a bit tiring after every squad announcement theres always the complaints that X should have been called up because he's playing for mediocre premiership team. Seems to be people who genuinely believe a starter for team A is indiscriminately a better choice to call up than a starter for team B when A is a better team than B regardless of any number of other variables at play.
I've seen nothing at any level in two years to justify calling up Clark so Trap is perfectly correct not to. It may ruffle some peoples feathers that an MLS player is being selected ahead of a premiership starter but O'Dea is the better player by a mile right now.

The best player right now is not necessarily the best player to pick for the long term future of the team, as in young players need to be picked in order to improve. I would limit that to friendly matches though. Agree that Clark has not shown himself to be better at internationl level than O'Dea, who was very effective during the last campaign.

[Charlie Darwin]

As I've said in another thread, he has more potential in terms of ability and career progression than O'Dea. Not going to make a great difference to the squad, in fairness, but it's important to recognise talented young players, especially when they're playing at a higher level than some squad incumbents. Clark has shown enough talent at Villa in the last 18 months to warrant inclusion in our squad, which, in case you haven't noticed, is not exactly laden with promising young defenders.

Is potential much use to an international team? Unless he is actually capable of doing the job when required, there is absolutely no reason to have him ahead of a limited but rock solid candidate like O'Dea who has never had a bad game in a green shirt.

Clark has a lot of attributes and will be a very good Premier League centre half (I'm delighted Paul Lambert agrees with me that he's a centre half too - he must be reading my posts) but I can see exactly why Trap doesn't think he's ready because at the moment his is rash, impetuous and makes too many mistakes. That sending off was pure inexperience and lack of footballing intelligence.

[OwlsFan]

Benitez says Irish win will restore faith

FORMER LIVERPOOL manager Rafa Benitez believes that a win in Kazakhstan for the Republic of Ireland next week will restore confidence to the team and in the manager after both took a mauling from vastly superior opponents at Euro 2012.

The Spaniard insists that Giovanni Trapattoni is simply paying the price now for the level of expectation he generated before the summer. It is, of course, a phenomenon he is somewhat familiar with.

“Yes,” he says, “I was watching the team and I always say the same: before the Euros everything about Trapattoni was positive; people were saying it was a fantastic team and achievement by the manager. Now, after the Euros, everything is bad and he should be sacked!

“I think it’s important to think about the big picture and try to be calm. You have to avoid getting too excited; you cannot be the best beforehand and the worst after. You have to find the balance. I think you will do well. If they win the first game everyone will be happy again; it will be a boost for everyone.”
He acknowledges, of course, that things went badly for the team in Poland but is rather dismissive of the idea that the blame can be laid at the door of Trapattoni because of the tactics employed.

“Obviously it’s not the system,” says the 52-year-old who will be appearing at the Bord Gáis Energy Theatre on September 13th in a sort of one-man show, Get In To the Mind Of Rafa Benitez, that coincides with the launch of his new book, Champions League Dreams. “Sure, you have to start with a system, a shape for the team but the main thing is the movement of the players on the pitch; what they want to do and what you allow them to do.

“I don’t see the system as a problem; I think that’s a very simplistic analysis. I can only say in the most polite way possible, that Spain were really good: that was Ireland’s problem.”

[back of the net]

Benitez says Irish win will restore faith

FORMER LIVERPOOL manager Rafa Benitez believes that a win in Kazakhstan for the Republic of Ireland next week will restore confidence to the team and in the manager after both took a mauling from vastly superior opponents at Euro 2012.

The Spaniard insists that Giovanni Trapattoni is simply paying the price now for the level of expectation he generated before the summer. It is, of course, a phenomenon he is somewhat familiar with.

“Yes,” he says, “I was watching the team and I always say the same: before the Euros everything about Trapattoni was positive; people were saying it was a fantastic team and achievement by the manager. Now, after the Euros, everything is bad and he should be sacked!

“I think it’s important to think about the big picture and try to be calm. You have to avoid getting too excited; you cannot be the best beforehand and the worst after. You have to find the balance. I think you will do well. If they win the first game everyone will be happy again; it will be a boost for everyone.”
He acknowledges, of course, that things went badly for the team in Poland but is rather dismissive of the idea that the blame can be laid at the door of Trapattoni because of the tactics employed.

“Obviously it’s not the system,” says the 52-year-old who will be appearing at the Bord Gáis Energy Theatre on September 13th in a sort of one-man show, Get In To the Mind Of Rafa Benitez, that coincides with the launch of his new book, Champions League Dreams. “Sure, you have to start with a system, a shape for the team but the main thing is the movement of the players on the pitch; what they want to do and what you allow them to do.

“I don’t see the system as a problem; I think that’s a very simplistic analysis. I can only say in the most polite way possible, that Spain were really good: that was Ireland’s problem.”

Two big issues with this article......

1) Im not sure how Rafa thinks a win against the mighty Kazakhstan will make "everyone" happy again and restore faith

2)While spain were excellent.....how the hell can he not see the system as a problem????

Scratching my head with his opinions in confusion

[Stuttgart88]

If his point is more generic - i.e., that in general the system isn't key it's how the players move around and interact that's important then I'd agree, but it's splitting hairs really.

[OwlsFan]

As ever the truth is somewhere in between.

He is correct the expectations were too high considering the group we were in.
He is wrong that people (inferring most people) were saying it is a fantastic acheivement and that the manager is great. Even before the Tournament there was a sizeable anti-Trapp lobby (not least in the RTE studio) which has grown so that they are now in a majority. No result in this game and a defeat by the Germans could see unpleasant scenes at the end of that game. Hopefully, not as bad as "supporters" chasing after the team bus with Mick McCarthy on board and spitting at it but then that was civil war stuff.
As back of the net states, everybody will not be happy if we win in Kazakhstan. In fact there would still be many people who would not be happy if we won the World Cup while Paul Green and McShane were in the panel and played 4-4-2. Such is the nature of football fans. Apparently it's not if we win for some but how we win.
He is correct it is not the system. We were beaten by better teams (which happens) and even if we had 10 in midfield, I am not sure we could have hung on to the ball. Also, as Strutts has said and Benitez has hinted at, you can play a 4-4-2 system and allow the full backs to overlap. As Chris Hughton said after the recent 5-0 stuffing of his Norwich team, they were 2(3)-0 down at half time with 5 in midfield so had to chase the game and revert to 4-4-2 which left them open so the latter is not a negative system provided the full backs are allowed move beyond the half way line.

I expect more of the same for this game as it has served us well away from home in two campaigns. What I worry about is our mediocre form at home which Trapp seems incapable of addressing.

[back of the net]

As ever the truth is somewhere in between.

He is correct the expectations were too high considering the group we were in.
He is wrong that people (inferring most people) were saying it is a fantastic acheivement and that the manager is great. Even before the Tournament there was a sizeable anti-Trapp lobby (not least in the RTE studio) which has grown so that they are now in a majority. No result in this game and a defeat by the Germans could see unpleasant scenes at the end of that game. Hopefully, not as bad as "supporters" chasing after the team bus with Mick McCarthy on board and spitting at it but then that was civil war stuff.
As back of the net states, everybody will not be happy if we win in Kazakhstan. In fact there would still be many people who would not be happy if we won the World Cup while Paul Green and McShane were in the panel and played 4-4-2. Such is the nature of football fans. Apparently it's not if we win for some but how we win.
He is correct it is not the system. We were beaten by better teams (which happens) and even if we had 10 in midfield, I am not sure we could have hung on to the ball. Also, as Strutts has said and Benitez has hinted at, you can play a 4-4-2 system and allow the full backs to overlap. As Chris Hughton said after the recent 5-0 stuffing of his Norwich team, they were 2(3)-0 down at half time with 5 in midfield so had to chase the game and revert to 4-4-2 which left them open so the latter is not a negative system provided the full backs are allowed move beyond the half way line.

I expect more of the same for this game as it has served us well away from home in two campaigns. What I worry about is our mediocre form at home which Trapp seems incapable of addressing.

While I do agree , we were beaten by better teams in the euros, what does irk me is the way we were beaten. Players playing in wrong positions under a system that is flawed and did not allow us as a team express themselves a bit more.
It was just horrible watching us get the ball and then give it back to the opponents and offer nothing in return due to Traps formation.

I honestly dont believe we are as bad as the euros suggested we were and I do believe that if Trap had a bit more belief in the other formations, we would not have been as taken to the cleaners as much as we were in Poland.

A win in Kazakhstan will do nothing to ease the nerves of those fans who have doubts (myself included). A win in Kazakhstan is what is expected of a Team that have qualified for the previous european championships despite Kazakhstans previous home results.

Trap needs a serious performance against Germany in Lansdowne Road, in order to restore some of the lost faith.

But as you say owlsfan, its our form at home and whether its Trapps incapability to deal with or his stubborness to change the formation at home that is the worry.

I think of how Russia destroyed us in Lansdowne, how slovakia outplayed us in Lansdowne, and how unlucky Macedonia and Armenia were at Lansdowne and cyprus were at croke park in the previous campaign.

I look forward to the Germany with very nervous optimism and alot of blind faith

[tricky_colour]

One thing I think which may be over looked it luck.
Everyone has luck, both good and bad and it is the same for teams.

Now if you span a coin 6 times and it came up tails every time people could well say you can't spin a coin properly,
that you do not know what you are doing, that you method of spinning the coin is flawed, but such things are
to be expected purely by luck. You would expect it to happen every 64 games.

WE have played 49 games under trap. But football is a 3 sided coin, win lose draw.

Losing 3 in a row is 27-1 so it shoudl have happen at least once.
We should also have won 3 in a row and drew 3 in a row.


We have drew 4 in a row.
Lost 3 in a row once.
And won 3 in a row once.

All other sequences have been short than that.
That is just about exactly what the kind of result you would expect to get from spinning a 3 sided coin.
The only one slightly out of kilter is drawing 4 in a row which is is 81-1 but even that is just fine because
when you have played half the expected games ie half 81 ie 40.5 You have a 50% chance of getting 4 in a row.
We have played 48 so it is more likely than not that there would a 4 in row sequence.

So what lessons can we learn from that?

None really