Kazakhstan V Republic of Ireland - Friday, 7th September 2012 - World Cup 2014 Q

[Stuttgart88]

I think the simple fact is that Trap thinks McClean is still raw and maybe lacking big game experience. I don't agree but he was like a mad hatter in the Tyne / Wear derby last season and would have been sent off in an international.

I don't agree with Cox's selection either but I think the reverse explanation of the McClean decision is the key: Trap likes what Cox brings to these games (attitude, workrate, responsibility, experience) even if he has to be played in the wrong position.

JOS was muck at the Euros but for a qualifier against a low seed I'm less fussed.

[Wolfie]

Has to be said that the lead up to this campaign hardly points to a new dawn or a re-imagining of how this team can play.

I understand to expect as much was unrealistic as Trapp has proven himself incapable of flexibility but nothing from the summer has been faced up to.

Sorry lads - he's not the type of manager this group of players needs right now nor is he allowing the team play in the manner that the support want.

We may well still scrape results but we won't progress.

Personally, an unlikely second place from this group would most likely only result in a disappointing performance at the finals anyway. Does anyone really want a repeat of Euro 2012????

[zero]

Personally, an unlikely second place from this group would most likely only result in a disappointing performance at the finals anyway. Does anyone really want a repeat of Euro 2012????

i'd like a repeat of actually qualifiying. chances are in the world cup we'll be in a group with poorer quality sides.

[Wolfie]

i'd like a repeat of actually qualifiying. chances are in the world cup we'll be in a group with poorer quality sides.

We'd still be operating in a tactical straightjacket.

The first decent team we'd meet we'd be unable to compete with them.

What frustrates is that their is a core group of players that could bring so much more footballing quality to this team that are being stymied with increasingly bizarre excuses for exclusion.

We'll most likely waste this campaign limping from one game to the next and won't qualify. We'll be no nearer a proper system of play and various players will still have limited experience.

[DannyInvincible]

Sorry lads - he's not the type of manager this group of players needs right now nor is he allowing the team play in the manner that the support want.

It's about results though, and as long as Trap is contracted to be our manager, he's entitled to make whatever decisions he wants in order to go about achieving those results in the manner he sees fit. We can criticise, of course, but it's not about what individual players need or what supporters want. It's about Trap bringing the team to the 2014 World Cup, so, if we feel his methods aren't going to achieve that goal, it's more appropriate to criticise him on that basis.

[Wolfie]

It's about results though, and as long as Trap is contracted to be our manager, he's entitled to make whatever decisions he wants in order to go about achieving those results in the manner he sees fit. We can criticise, of course, but it's not about what individual players need or what supporters want. It's about Trap bringing the team to the 2014 World Cup, so, if we feel his methods aren't going to achieve that goal, it's more appropriate to criticise him on that basis.

A lot of the frustration and lack of faith that personally I'm picking up on, convinces me that many feel this team is about more than just results.

Fans and players want a team to be proud of, to identify with and to have a sense that they are going about things to the best of their potential and ability.

There's a groundswell of opinion that this team is being hindered from reaching its potential.

We're becoming a self fulfilling prophesy. We're now the one dimensional, primitive, hoofing team we were always lazily accused of being by the British media.

[jbyrne]

Trap and his squad have had two campaigns to date:

WC 2010
Undefeated in qualification group including drawing with current WC holders twice. Only knocked out under very dubious play off circumstances.

EURO 2012
Beaten only once while qualifying for first time in 6 attempts.

I think thats decent potential fulfilment for a group of players picked from lower EPL and championship squads.
Team currently ranked 26 in the world and was recently as high as 18th.

Id love to know on what basis we have any right to expect a higher potential.

[geysir]

If we take off from where we left the Serbia game, then I'm content.
It's an attack minded team, looks more a 4-2-3-1 to me. I'll wait and see how it pans out in the game.
Our player options aren't that great, not enough to generate a state of bewilderment in me about who Trap has selected to play.
I'd assume that McCarthy will play in front of Whelan and his distribution will be better than what we have been use to and we have a good selection of players on the bench.

[Duggie]

Trap and his squad have had two campaigns to date:

WC 2010
Undefeated in qualification group including drawing with current WC holders twice. Only knocked out under very dubious play off circumstances.

EURO 2012
Beaten only once while qualifying for first time in 6 attempts.

I think thats decent potential fulfilment for a group of players picked from lower EPL and championship squads.
Team currently ranked 26 in the world and was recently as high as 18th.

Id love to know on what basis we have any right to expect a higher potential.

ya ok but as we saw in the euro's maybe we were quite lucky not to be beaten on more occasions during those qualifying campaigns. all those little things we got away with were punished in the euros and look how we ended up. i'm willing to stick with trap for now but if we dont start playing our best players(Long, McClean) in there right positions sooner or later those draws and 1-0 wins will turn to defeats.

[Colbert Report]

Had a dream about the match last night. Finished 0-0.

[SwanVsDalton]

Had a dream about the match last night. Finished 0-0.

You'd sleep through a match like that.

[tetsujin1979]

Realistically, if any of us were to pick the team, there would be only one or two additions (Clark/Hoolahan) and one or two changes to the starting XI - McClean, who may not be 100% despite what he says on twitter, instead of Cox and O'Shea at centre half instead of O'Dea (FWIW I've no problem with O'Dea at centre half)
Walters and Long is a judgement call and Keane has historically played best with a target man (Quinn, Berbatov) so Walters gets the nod. Long will probably replace him as he tires anyway.

[jbyrne]

Realistically, if any of us were to pick the team, there would be only one or two additions (Clark/Hoolahan) and one or two changes to the starting XI - McClean, who may not be 100% despite what he says on twitter, instead of Cox and O'Shea at centre half instead of O'Dea (FWIW I've no problem with O'Dea at dentre half)
Walters and Long is a judgement call and Keane has historically played best with a target man (Quinn, Berbatov) so Walters gets the nod. Long will probably replace him as he tires anyway.

all very sensible talk

[Stuttgart88]

I think 7 or 8 of the starters would be the same but I also think the tactics would be less restrictive and the players might be able to express themselves more. "Just like under Stan?" some might ask. I'd say the players have learnt about the benefits of organisation and hard work over the last few years but I think it's time to add something more than that. Even if we're to focus on our "without the ball" work, we should be looking to do more than just stand off the opposition. I'm not saying we should go from being the Cliff Thorburn of international football to Alex Higgins. Ray Reardon would be a start.

[Kingdom]

Finding it hard to keep optimistic with the management at the moment. What I'd like to see would be:
Westwood
Kelly Josh Sledge Wilson
McCarthy Whelan
McGeady
Long McClean
Walters

That to me is a form team, a competent team and a team that would be comfortable with the formation. Long/Walters are interchangeable, as I think the burly striker description does Walters a disservice, as does "nippy forward" for Long.

I have my worries about this one. I reckon we're one bad result away from the whole setup unravelling too.

[Wolfie]

Id love to know on what basis we have any right to expect a higher potential.

If we continue to steadfastly refuse to play anything other than a containing game, that bypasses midfield - we'll never find out what our true potential is.

[Charlie Darwin]

I think 7 or 8 of the starters would be the same but I also think the tactics would be less restrictive and the players might be able to express themselves more. "Just like under Stan?" some might ask. I'd say the players have learnt about the benefits of organisation and hard work over the last few years but I think it's time to add something more than that. Even if we're to focus on our "without the ball" work, we should be looking to do more than just stand off the opposition. I'm not saying we should go from being the Cliff Thorburn of international football to Alex Higgins. Ray Reardon would be a start.

I'm willing to wait until after the match to judge on whether there's been a philosophy shift.

[jbyrne]

If we continue to steadfastly refuse to play anything other than a containing game, that bypasses midfield - we'll never find out what our true potential is.

some teams bypass ctre mid and use wingers some ignore wingers and use ctre mid. Trap has always picked two out and out widemen no matter who the opposition are with varying degress of success.

the bottom line is that we produce a certain type of player in this country with the odd exception like duff and we have to cut our cloth accordingly. only when we had probably the best holding ctre mid in the world at the time under mick did we let loose a little more with any kind of success. we can delude ourselves that players like hoolahan can come in and add this great spark to help unlease this prolific attack some would believe exists but its clutching at straws imo.

[Charlie Darwin]

I don't think Keane was a holding midfielder, was he? I always saw him as a box to box type.

[jbyrne]

I don't think Keane was a holding midfielder, was he? I always saw him as a box to box type.

I suppose he was but how many times was he back making covering tackles all over the defence? that was my point really (badly illustrated though)