QuoteObviously, Sligo fans are at an advantage because they don't have to worry about going back to Sligo after the game.
Three years on and it still makes me chortle.Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
DID YOU NOTICE A SIGN OUTSIDE MY HOUSE...?
Obviously, Sligo fans are at an advantage because they don't have to worry about going back to Sligo after the game.
Some have to travel back, but it is true Sligo Rovers have ,more support in Dublin than UCD and more support in UCD than UCD.
The debate around league structure is always coloured by the position of the club from which people are arguing. This is despite the fact that things tend to change very quickly in this league and the closer you get to the very top it seems the more likely that you'll have an implosion. Still, clubs at the top don't want to play 'minnows'. Those at the bottom want games against the current top clubs in the hope of attracting more people to their matches and interest generally.
Ideally you'd get leadership from the FAI on this to look at the overall good of the league, but that seems unlikely, and in any case they seem to be concerned with the arguments from the top sides, especially that expanding the league will reduce quality and therefore affect the chances of Irish side in Europe. Generally, structural changes have been approached from the point of view of the premier with the first division as an afterthought, which is the wrong approach in my opinion.
As I see it, some of the arguments against a bigger premier don't really wash.
Will the quality reduce that much? I don't really think so. Generally there are some decent teams in the first and some poor ones in the premier- you'd add in some more poor ones of course, but chances are the good players would spread out a bit more and even things up. The really awful teams tend to be as much due to meltdowns as much as anything else and these have been relatively division independent (indeed probably more prevalent in the premier). I don't particularly care about European results- I used to, but once it was evident that their improvement didn't help anyone but the clubs involved I lost a fair bit of interest. And so what if there are mini leagues within the top flight? They're there already in most leagues around the world and don't do any real harm except where the number of clubs at the very top gets too small. And Irish football is pretty good in terms of having different clubs on the up at different times.
On the other hand in a bigger premier clubs would have a greater variety of fixtures meaning derbies and the like mean more, greater security in which to rebuild when necessary (mid-table obscurity isn't always a bad thing), permanent balance between home and away fixtures.
The biggest argument I see against a bigger top tier at the moment is that a one tier league doesn't feel right and may stagnate. But at the moment we're running out of clubs to keep the already pretty stagnant feeling first division going, and indeed the prospect of playing there is probably a deterrent rather than incentive to aspire to senior football for non league clubs unless they have major backing, so something needs to be done. Relatively decent clubs with good traditions can get bogged down in the first for years and wither somewhat (or a lot), which isn't healthy for the league overall. Of course, many argue that's the clubs' own fault, but then again there's always the sort of people around who'll punch a guy's teeth out and then punch him in the stomach for mumbling. Ideally the league structure might feature regional first divisions feeding into the national premier, but this would take time, will and effort to implement and I don't think that's there with the FAI currently. As I believe may have been mentioned on here in the past, the pyramid structure in Irish football is horribly dysfunctional. Is the will there to remedy this? Not really.
On a somewhat related point- I think one of the major things that needs to be addressed is to lower the cost of being a senior club. Affiliation fees, refs fees, fines etc all seriously add up and make the step up to the first very daunting even for the bigger non league clubs. For a senior club cutting to the bone and trying to rebuild, the high fixed costs make this particularly difficult. Incidentally- for such clubs a few bigger gates per season would make a hell of a difference.
Edit: As if this wasn't long enough.. meant to say that with regard to structural change I'd like to see some actual analysis done before the next one, rather than the usual gut feeling / knee jerk approach. That's fine for us on here, but not for running senior football!
Anyhoo, bit of a ramble there, thanks for for reading and may Allah guide your footsteps towards a pie of your choosing.
Last edited by Mr A; 23/08/2012 at 3:58 PM.
#NeverStopNotGivingUp
I'd be in favour of a larger Premier. Cork City don't get to play Limerick or Waterford an awful lot, and despite what kind of squads each of these teams possess, they will always be competitive due to it being a derby.
I'd agree with all that Mr. A. On the issue of having a league below the Premier, I'd be in favour of bringing back an A championship type division underneath the Premier. I can understand Premier teams being pressed financially to field ANOTHER team, but LOI teams already have to field U19 teams and there is an U17 league on the way I believe. Could this regional league (possibly 3 regions??) not be regarded as a psuedo u21 league with some reserves allowed rather than a full blown reserve league. Aspiring future LOI teams (e.g. Carlow, Tralee, Fanad etc) would also be involved and could be alllowed to field as many over 21 players as they liked.
Another advantage to this would be that talented players who were over 19 and not quite ready for LOI premier, could ply their trade in this league as an U21 player and possibly a future reserve player until they were ready for the step up.
I'd imagine the latter idea would probably just compromise the integrity of the U19 league.
How? Where do 20 year olds that are not quite good enough yet for Premier LOI go to?
I imagine that most teams used the A league as a underage type team anyway with a few fringe players. I know Harps did this. I'd be in favour of a one team Premier and a regionalised A championship below it.
Imagine an 18 team Premier. Below that North/South, 9 reserve teams and 3 non-league making 2 divisions of 12.
https://kesslereffect.bandcamp.com/album/kepler - New music. It's not that bad.
That is a problem but I don't think clubs at the moment have the numbers to be fielding another team between U19 and senior level.
Emmett Malone in the Irish Times more or less confirms what we know: FD teams are in favour of a merger and the PD teams are against. Shamrock Rovers are opposed despite the relative gains they'd make, presumably because overall income would decline (in the short term): http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...322861559.html
Waterford are going to walk away? Really?
The idea that the FAI press ahead with what could possibly be just 6 teams in the First Division next year is crazy. Not mad about the idea of a split single tier either.
Author of Never Felt Better (History, Film Reviews).
Anyone else have a strange feeling there will be some relegation this year from the Premier after all?
We could have a Maxi all over again.
https://kesslereffect.bandcamp.com/album/kepler - New music. It's not that bad.
Any of the older fans on here have many memories of what a single tier 16 team division was like?
Were the attendances much different to today, and was there much interest from teams near the bottom as the season progressed despite there being no relegation?
I grew up with the one division and the reserve division but it was in a different time without the blanket coverage of sport that is available now. In that time there was nothing else to do other than attend a match on a Sunday afternoon after probably watching one of the local junior sides earlier in the morning so attendances while greater it was a different era but still had their up and downs depending on success.
An example of crowds fluctuating was the second year we won the league I believe it was almost over just after Christmas and people werent turning up for games as the league was won or to really show how fickle support could be in the season following out first ever league success after a few games we were laying 4th and half the support was calling for Turleys head.
In my opinion we have no choice but to go with one division and under 19 / 17s in the present climate as clubs are slowly disappearing into stagnation in this First Division with match sponsorship with very little return for the sponsor becoming harder to get.
One thing with one division is how do they manage licensing for clubs not at Premier Standard yet.
Well, who is that? Limerick will be fine once the new ground is completed. I think Waterford (though is there financial issues for them?) and Longford are fine. Terryland is there for a Galway club, whoever it is. So, Finn Harps, Wexford and Athlone? I can't remember if they got PD licenses.
Author of Never Felt Better (History, Film Reviews).
We've always got a premier license, except for 2009 I think when we mistakenly went for a first license. Financially we're sound enough for the forseeable, but most clubs are a couple of bad decisions away from ruin.
Sporting F*ck All!
Whichever structure they put in place there will most likely be a u19 league with no reserve teams, due to the cost. They need to think about allowing maybe 2 senior players on the pitch at any one time in an u19 league. It wOuld be a good way of getting 1st team players some game time as they come back from injury.
Manager: Fergal, have you your boots with ya?
Fergal: Ya, I have them here.
Manager: Ah good stuff, well give them to this man so, he forgot his!
No there isn't.
A First Division with eight teams this season is ridiculous, that moving to a six or seven would be catastrophic to those 6/7 teams.
I’m not pedantic...I’m merely overly concerned with minute details.
Mervue and Salthill will not be paying senior football next season which could very well force the FAI's hand.
To a far greater extent than John O'Sullivans empty threats anyway.
It's going to be an 18 team league or remain as an 12 and an 8 for another year.
There's arguments to suggest both would be most likely.
The attendances thing is an absolute red herring as well, from both sides of the argument.
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