QuoteIf that comes with a guarantee you can beat us 10-0. 35 years is a long time.Originally Posted by PartySaint
I'd settle for that. We've an awful record in Inchicore although we're playing very well the last few weeks. Certainly a lot better then when Pats came to the Showgrounds
If that comes with a guarantee you can beat us 10-0. 35 years is a long time.
"Even if the wind stops to blow
Even if the sea ceases to flow
Even if the sun ceases to rise
The name of Sligo Rovers will shine and shine forever like the morning star glittering in the sky."
God, preserve us all from the hubris but we are going to kick ye'er sorry arses come Friday. Look on our works ye mighty and despair.
Have you seen the First Division? 15 points between Harps in 4th and Waterford in 3rd. Crazy stuff.
https://kesslereffect.bandcamp.com/album/kepler - New music. It's not that bad.
A litigate argument not to have a 16 team league !!!!
Manager: Fergal, have you your boots with ya?
Fergal: Ya, I have them here.
Manager: Ah good stuff, well give them to this man so, he forgot his!
Exactly. And the points gaps in a 16 team league would be bigger and even gigantic only for the fact that 3 points is the maximum haul for annihilating a basement team.
Yes, I'm loving the fact now that Harps are on a good run of form, and we still can't get a big crowd in. Be pretty handy if Shamrock Rovers or Sligo came to town now, while they're pushing for the league.
But sure..not any sort of argument for helping a clubs finances.
There's points gaps in the current Premier Division, jesus is that the only argument against a 16 team Premier?
https://kesslereffect.bandcamp.com/album/kepler - New music. It's not that bad.
You've kind of summed it up there. A 16 team league would be a financial boon to FD clubs but disastrous for PD clubs. It would be like getting relegated for the likes of UCD and Bray and the relative gains would go to clubs like the two Rovers for whom away crowds are a minor portion of the total attendance.
We're obviously going to disagree here, so there's no point arguing. But I firmly believe it has to be one division next season. There's no way forward for the First division. It's dead, and to avoid it and keep the clubs there stuck in a league nobody cares about is rubbish. Because one division might slightly hamper the crowds of the top teams in certain games is also a rubbish reason against one division.
Going by your own argument, what is the way forward for a first division? Do we let it stay as it is? Clubs are struggling financially because of lack of sponsorship, lack of crowds, and general lack of interest from the public and the media.
Longford are 2nd in the league, crowds are not even reaching 300 lately.
Limerick are starting to run away with it, average attendance of under 700.
This isn't good enough. The first division has to be scrapped. If Sligo and Shamrock Rovers are getting good crowds on a regular basis, they'll continue to get them, whether they're playing St.Pats or Wexford Youths.
https://kesslereffect.bandcamp.com/album/kepler - New music. It's not that bad.
I wasn't saying it's a bad idea, just pointing out there will be winners and losers from every arrangement and you can bet the clubs that stand to lose out will try to resist change. On the other hand, clubs like UCD and Bray might prefer the security of top-flight football to the extra gates they get in the Premier. It will take a bit of leadership to see it through if it does come to a one-division league.
I couldn't agree more CD, but I just think the positives outweigh the negatives. And currently, it's the best way to rebuild the league.
https://kesslereffect.bandcamp.com/album/kepler - New music. It's not that bad.
Well i think he is saying that the home crowd would increase for the home club if one of the two Rovers came to town.
The SFAI are the governing body for grassroots football in Ireland, not the FAI. Its success or the lack of is all down to them.
Still, needs a strong leader to get everyone on side.
That's what I mean. Current FD clubs will benefit from bigger attendances, but current PD teams will lose out because Youths and Harps are never going to bring the same traveling support as the two Rovers. Of those PD clubs, the likes of Bray and UCD will be the worst hit because they rely more on away crowds, and the Rovers will be least affected because they already have large home supports.
Again, it does seem like a fairer system to have a 16-team league, but some clubs will lose out, and some of those clubs are already struggling financially.
So, you're telling me, the 100 or so that come from Derry/Sligo would well outnumber any home support from Harps? I sincerely disagree. No disrespect to Sligo, I know they brought a good travelling support to Tallaght recently, but don't be telling me that's the usual away support for them.
In the Premier Division, crowd would most definitely rise in a 16/18 team division right across the board due to an increased interest in the league as a whole. The league itself would 100% become much more competitive in my view. The teams at the top would most certainly keep their high attendances due to their league position, as always happens. It can only be a good thing for the league if average attendances for new Premier teams such as Wexford/Harps/Longford/Limerick went much higher, home support would grow, as well as away support. Lets face it, there's never more than 40+ fans at away matches for clubs in the first division, and at times we're lucky to see that. I think it's happened 3 times in Finn Park this season.
Don't try tell me that 18 teams would have a detrimental effect on attendances, because it most certainly would not. No matter where a team is in the league, you are still guaranteed at least 4 or 5 games a season with 1,000+ crowds.
Sorry, but for me, the attendances argument holds no water.
https://kesslereffect.bandcamp.com/album/kepler - New music. It's not that bad.
It's not, but they routinely bring a bigger crowd than Bohs, who despite being our fierce local rivals can't seem to overcome the lack of a direct bus route.
Can't fathom your reasoning here. Rovers' lowest attendances by far this past year so were for matches with Athlone and Limerick. Granted, they were in the Cup, but they were on Fridays. The addition of those sides to a reformed Premier Division will result in a drop in crowds for every club in the current PD. That might be mitigated in the long run by increased interest, but in the short term? No way.In the Premier Division, crowd would most definitely rise in a 16/18 team division right across the board due to an increased interest in the league as a whole. The league itself would 100% become much more competitive in my view. The teams at the top would most certainly keep their high attendances due to their league position, as always happens.
You're taking a long-term view, and you might be right. In the short term, everybody but the likes of Harps and other FD teams will experience a drop in attendances for half the season. Just look at the difference in gates for Cork, Shels and Derry since they got promoted. People aren't magically going to get excited about a home fixture with Athlone just because they've been arbitrarily reassigned to the Premier Division.It can only be a good thing for the league if average attendances for new Premier teams such as Wexford/Harps/Longford/Limerick went much higher, home support would grow, as well as away support. Lets face it, there's never more than 40+ fans at away matches for clubs in the first division, and at times we're lucky to see that. I think it's happened 3 times in Finn Park this season.
Don't try tell me that 18 teams would have a detrimental effect on attendances, because it most certainly would not. No matter where a team is in the league, you are still guaranteed at least 4 or 5 games a season with 1,000+ crowds.
Sorry, but for me, the attendances argument holds no water.
But isn't the problem with the league in the long term structure? The quick fixes of recent years have us where we are at present. The league needs a solid long term structure.
https://kesslereffect.bandcamp.com/album/kepler - New music. It's not that bad.
It's terrible how teams playing in a lower tier have to put up with lower attendances. If only there was some way the teams playing in the top tier and getting higher attendances could help them out.
For those who disagree with the one league structure - whats your alternative for the First Division? Keep it as it is? Let more clubs in, with all of the financial pitfalls?
Is there even any genuine interest in the application process anymore? Apart from GUST, is anyone lining up a serious bid to join the LOI next year?
Author of Never Felt Better (History, Film Reviews).
Without sounding like Im having a go Nigel, but its interesting how you straight away change the attention from the likely gulfs in league table positions that will (definetly imo) occur in a 16 team league to attendances/ club finances. No doubt Harps obsession with the lack of both crowds and cash has somthing to do with that!!!
A 16 or 18 league would do little for the 'lesser' teams in the league imo. Take Harps. Of course they will have a few bigger gates when Rovers, Shams, Derry and maybe Pats come to town. In fairness, so what, it will be a very small percentage of running costs in a season and the rest of the time it will be as you were.
A 16 or 18 team league would have major gaps in it due to quality and could end up just bringing the joke that is the FD into a what would be a multi level Premier division. At the moment every team in the premier has a chance against every other team. That competion value would be watered down with team expansion, somthing that would look pretty sad viewing on a league table with a daft multi level league.
Dont get me wrong Im not saying a 16 league team cant work. LTID made a good argument for one in a thread recently. But without major structural changes from the top down expansion imo would be change for change sake and not a good idea. I genuinely dont like playing 3 teams a season but its the most competiive method of doing it at the moment. Why should the premier teams change to suit FD teams?
It too easy for fans and clubs in the FD to say its crap, cant get out, change it, expand it. Bull. Look where we were 7 years ago, 5th in the FD was a decent season. GEt your house in order, work hard and make resonable expectations season on season and the FD will soon be nothing but a faded memory.
Manager: Fergal, have you your boots with ya?
Fergal: Ya, I have them here.
Manager: Ah good stuff, well give them to this man so, he forgot his!
So, keep it as it is? Shall it be 7 if two clubs go up? 6 if Mervue and SD depart in exchange for GUST? Is there a line in the sand?
Author of Never Felt Better (History, Film Reviews).
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