North Tipp & District League 2012/13

[bawn79]

[QUOTE=panda87;1686674][QUOTE=bawn79;1686589]

That tipp cup win last year was some achievement so!

I agree - that was brilliant.

Don't take it the wrong way but without any natural population centre (like a village) it is some achievement.

[bawn79]

[QUOTE=bawn79;1685765]

Lads, don't get me wrong. I really respect what Nenagh Town have done. I'm using the population argument as a shield to defend Clough not a sword to attack Nenagh. Nenagh have a brilliant set-up and from any dealings I've had with them they always come across as decent people.
However they do have a natural advantage based on population. People associated with the club shouldn't use this advantage to attack other clubs that don't have those advantages. I don't have any issue with the success Nenagh have had however based on the size of the town they should be winning the league every year easily and their sights should be set to higher prizes.

For example - Its like when say Bulgaria qualified for a world cup and got to the semi-finals in 94, that was based on a group of good players coming together at the same time. However Bulgaria have a small population and have had little success since. I would compare Cloughjordan to Bulgaria (sorry Clough!) and Nenagh to Brazil.
Brazil will curn out players based on the sheer size of the population. However you don't see Brazil boasting about beating Bulgaria. They boast about beating the Spains / Italys / Germanys of this world. In the case of Junior soccer these are better the teams of towns with similar populations in the FAI / Munster Junior Cups.

You could go into further analysis showing that with the main teams in the next two biggest towns in North Tipp not playing in the competition (ie Peak Villa (Population of Thurles 7,933) & Killavilla (Population of Roscrea 5,403) that Nenagh are an absolutely huge fish within the North Tipp pond (population of North Tipperary 70,322). To be honest I would think that the lack of competition in North Tipp is what holds back Nenagh in the National tournements.

I was thinking about this again and I actually didn't include Newport (Population of 1,806) who also play outside of North Tipp.

For a bit of stato fun if you were to take the out the three towns whose primary teams don't play in north tipp, the population remaining is 55,180.
Therefore you could argue that in North Tipp to make the division equal there would be 5 & 1/2 teams. Best to round this up to 6 teams.
Looking through the census very quickly I came up with a semi-equal league based on population.

Nenagh Town - 10k
Club from Upper Ormond - 6k (made up of current clubs Borrisokane / Cloughjordan / Ardcroney / Streamstown Celtic / Puckane / Shannon Rangers)
Club from Lower Ormond - 6k (made up of current clubs Arra Rovers / Lough Derg / Rearcross / Kilcommon / Silvermines Area / Newtown Area)
Club from West Thurles - 6k (made up of current clubs Thurles Town / Thurles Celtic / Borroway / Borrisoleigh Area / Holycross / Clodiagh)
Club from Toomevara District - 6k (made up of current clubs Sallypark, Gurtagarry, Noreside Celtic, Ballymackey, Toomevara Area)
Club from Templemore - 6k (made up of current clubs Blackcastle, Clonmore, Templetouhy, Moneygal)

So with one club from each of these and Newport, Killavilla & Peakvilla you would have a very competitive league.

[celticlads]

[QUOTE=bawn79;1686764]

I was thinking about this again and I actually didn't include Newport (Population of 1,806) who also play outside of North Tipp.

For a bit of stato fun if you were to take the out the three towns whose primary teams don't play in north tipp, the population remaining is 55,180.
Therefore you could argue that in North Tipp to make the division equal there would be 5 & 1/2 teams. Best to round this up to 6 teams.
Looking through the census very quickly I came up with a semi-equal league based on population.

Nenagh Town - 10k
Club from Upper Ormond - 6k (made up of current clubs Borrisokane / Cloughjordan / Ardcroney / Streamstown Celtic / Puckane / Shannon Rangers)
Club from Lower Ormond - 6k (made up of current clubs Arra Rovers / Lough Derg / Rearcross / Kilcommon / Silvermines Area / Newtown Area)
Club from West Thurles - 6k (made up of current clubs Thurles Town / Thurles Celtic / Borroway / Borrisoleigh Area / Holycross / Clodiagh)
Club from Toomevara District - 6k (made up of current clubs Sallypark, Gurtagarry, Noreside Celtic, Ballymackey, Toomevara Area)
Club from Templemore - 6k (made up of current clubs Blackcastle, Clonmore, Templetouhy, Moneygal)

So with one club from each of these and Newport, Killavilla & Peakvilla you would have a very competitive league.

Newport, killavilla and Peakvilla would be a huge addition to the North Tipp league, cant see either Newport or Peakvilla joining but Killavilla are looking to get their schoolboys back into North Tipp not sure about the adult teams.

If BT Harps can filter through some of the schoolboys they have they will be right up their in a few years time as well, also if thurles could join forces they to would be a major player but they need to try get a schoolboys set up going.

[bawn79]

[QUOTE=celticlads;1686895]

Newport, killavilla and Peakvilla would be a huge addition to the North Tipp league, cant see either Newport or Peakvilla joining but Killavilla are looking to get their schoolboys back into North Tipp not sure about the adult teams.

If BT Harps can filter through some of the schoolboys they have they will be right up their in a few years time as well, also if thurles could join forces they to would be a major player but they need to try get a schoolboys set up going.

Cool about Killavilla. I remember being beaten 6-0 by them once playing u-16 when they played in North Tipp.
Also sorry about leaving out Nenagh Celtic in my illustration above, it was just simpler for comparison purposes. I do think a town of Nenaghs size should have two teams. It wasn't so long ago that ye went a season unbeaten right?

I wondered about making it a requirement of having a team in the Premier division, that you had to have a youths team also. Could be an interesting proposal to put forward to the AGM for next season.

[celticlads]

[QUOTE=bawn79;1687043]

Cool about Killavilla. I remember being beaten 6-0 by them once playing u-16 when they played in North Tipp.
Also sorry about leaving out Nenagh Celtic in my illustration above, it was just simpler for comparison purposes. I do think a town of Nenaghs size should have two teams. It wasn't so long ago that ye went a season unbeaten right?

I wondered about making it a requirement of having a team in the Premier division, that you had to have a youths team also. Could be an interesting proposal to put forward to the AGM for next season.

I think no club should be allowed to join the North Tipp league without 1st having an underage structure in place, now i dont mean a team in every age group but maybe 2 underage teams with plans to futher development. Without a structure its very hard to keep a club goinig and can lead to clubs folding after a couple of years.

Ya i agree about 2 teams in Nenagh but 2 is enough, what do you mean with ie Nenagh 10k?

[bawn79]

[QUOTE=celticlads;1687068]

I think no club should be allowed to join the North Tipp league without 1st having an underage structure in place, now i dont mean a team in every age group but maybe 2 underage teams with plans to futher development. Without a structure its very hard to keep a club goinig and can lead to clubs folding after a couple of years.

Ya i agree about 2 teams in Nenagh but 2 is enough, what do you mean with ie Nenagh 10k?

Ya I agree with you on the joining thing. It turns it too much into a pub league kinda thing without this. 11 lads with a set of shirts can join if they stump up the entry fee.

Nenagh 10k - was just taking into account that Nenagh has a population of 10,000 people, thats all.

[celticlads]

[QUOTE=bawn79;1687076]

Ya I agree with you on the joining thing. It turns it too much into a pub league kinda thing without this. 11 lads with a set of shirts can join if they stump up the entry fee.

Nenagh 10k - was just taking into account that Nenagh has a population of 10,000 people, thats all.

Oh right, didnt realise it was that high.

Do you think any of the groups would join? would make for a very competitive league if they did.

[bawn79]

[QUOTE=celticlads;1687077]

Oh right, didnt realise it was that high.

Do you think any of the groups would join? would make for a very competitive league if they did.

Well I'd like to think a Toomevara "Superteam" could be feasible based on the fact that a lot of the players play hurling for the same team / parish. I've put my own personal view on here before that I'd love to see Ballymackey, Gurtagarry & Sallypark joining together. But I'm an outsider at the club so I'm not sure of what the general view would be.

Before Newtown Celtic finished up I was pushing for them to join with Arra. We approached Arra at the time but they turned us down. Within a few years they relaxed their own rules and a good few ex Newtown players ended up playing for them. However there was a period around just after Newtown folded that I think a combined Arra / Newtown team would have been very close to being good enough for a Premier league title.

[skunk]

Nice to see some healthy debate. A few points re recent posts.
Forcing amalgamations not the answer really, the 11 lads with shirts are entitled to have a go, they love the game, will have a strong sense of identity and camaraderie and will play for the shirt, There are 4 divisions so they will find their standard, enjoy themselves and may be playing decent footie.
The Nenagh population thing. 10,000 my arse, more like 7,000 I would say, and this number would include many players with other clubs, be they either townies, or country lads who moved to Nenagh for the urbane and sophisticated lifestyle.
BT Harps schoolboys, their standard has fallen dramatically in past 4/5 years, and they're finding it difficult to compete with Nenagh AFC at all ages except u16s, where their once very talented squad (The best in Nth Tipp for past 5/6 years) will now break up, as it is backboned by Drom n' Inch hurlers / gaelic footballers.
Nenagh AFC Youths, no need to try and keep them together, 2 of them part of this season's 1st team squad (17 year old scored v Clough in recent league decider), and the B team which will play in next Friday's Tipp cup final has several of them involved, including at least 2 starters. It's a long term project for Nenagh and starting to bear fruit - start them very young, coach them properly (would require a whole new thread to fully explore that), give them good facilities - then they form an identity with the club, becoming life long members - you then have a vibrant football club. Obviously not as simple as that, it takes a lot of time on the part of very dedicated volunteers, some of whom would be former players. And being an urban centre does help - witness the premier division containing Harps, 2 Nenagh teams and Thurles. On a lesser scale, Borris and Clough. The latter really deserve credit on their past season, but playing facilities will always hold them back. Maybe they could join forces with Ardcroney, who along with Ballymackey deserve enormous credit for their facilities, potentially 2 premier clubs right there, decent schoolboy set ups too.
Best of luck to both teams on Friday night, a great night for the club, neutrals should go and be envious of both the occasion and surroundings, and then go and do what they can for their own club.
And the very best of luck to all clubs in North Tipp, for promoting and keeping the Beautiful Game alive and kicking.

[celticlads]

i dont think anyone is trying to force amalgamations skunk, but you could be right about BT Harps i think alot of that 16s team could drift away thats what i meant by saying if they could filter them through. You have made alot of strong points there but i strongly disagree with you about any 11 forming a club, if there that interested in playing football there are enough clubs around already or like i said start with a few schoolboys teams and see how the club would grow form there.

[Hon-The-Blues!!]

i dont think anyone is trying to force amalgamations skunk, but you could be right about BT Harps i think alot of that 16s team could drift away thats what i meant by saying if they could filter them through. You have made alot of strong points there but i strongly disagree with you about any 11 forming a club, if there that interested in playing football there are enough clubs around already or like i said start with a few schoolboys teams and see how the club would grow form there.

Funny that because Nenagh AFC was founded in 1951, and Celtic not until 1981

[celticlads]

Funny that because Nenagh AFC was founded in 1951, and Celtic not until 1981

And your point is?

[bawn79]

Nice to see some healthy debate. A few points re recent posts.
Forcing amalgamations not the answer really, the 11 lads with shirts are entitled to have a go, they love the game, will have a strong sense of identity and camaraderie and will play for the shirt, There are 4 divisions so they will find their standard, enjoy themselves and may be playing decent footie.
The Nenagh population thing. 10,000 my arse, more like 7,000 I would say, and this number would include many players with other clubs, be they either townies, or country lads who moved to Nenagh for the urbane and sophisticated lifestyle.
BT Harps schoolboys, their standard has fallen dramatically in past 4/5 years, and they're finding it difficult to compete with Nenagh AFC at all ages except u16s, where their once very talented squad (The best in Nth Tipp for past 5/6 years) will now break up, as it is backboned by Drom n' Inch hurlers / gaelic footballers.
Nenagh AFC Youths, no need to try and keep them together, 2 of them part of this season's 1st team squad (17 year old scored v Clough in recent league decider), and the B team which will play in next Friday's Tipp cup final has several of them involved, including at least 2 starters. It's a long term project for Nenagh and starting to bear fruit - start them very young, coach them properly (would require a whole new thread to fully explore that), give them good facilities - then they form an identity with the club, becoming life long members - you then have a vibrant football club. Obviously not as simple as that, it takes a lot of time on the part of very dedicated volunteers, some of whom would be former players. And being an urban centre does help - witness the premier division containing Harps, 2 Nenagh teams and Thurles. On a lesser scale, Borris and Clough. The latter really deserve credit on their past season, but playing facilities will always hold them back. Maybe they could join forces with Ardcroney, who along with Ballymackey deserve enormous credit for their facilities, potentially 2 premier clubs right there, decent schoolboy set ups too.
Best of luck to both teams on Friday night, a great night for the club, neutrals should go and be envious of both the occasion and surroundings, and then go and do what they can for their own club.
And the very best of luck to all clubs in North Tipp, for promoting and keeping the Beautiful Game alive and kicking.

I wasn't suggesting forced amalgamations, it was just a harmless way of comparing the relative populations of Nenagh versus the clubs they compete against in the league. The 10k vs 7k is debatable, 7,995 was the official census population in 2011 so depending on the town limits its probably somewhere in between. When I was coming up with the 6k for the other clubs it was quite a struggle and a few of those I'd say are an over-estimate.

I would disagree (like Celticlad) about the 11 lads and a bag of shirts, there are more than enough teams around for players to play on, I think.

Re the u-18s, I was just suggesting a way to keep them together for u-19 level to give another go at the fai cup for them as there is no league at this level in North Tipp.

Best of luck in the Tipperary Cup final - should be a good game. I have a feeling Nenagh will pip it though!

However in the absence of any prize money for winning the Premier division, I was just thinking that it would be in Nenaghs best interest to have a more competitive league to play against. Competition would sharper the teams for the national competitions. In the short term Nenagh A vs Nenagh B is a good thing but in the long-term what will happen, it is possible to get too big.

[mr. man]

On a lesser scale, Borris and Clough. The latter really deserve credit on their past season, but playing facilities will always hold them back.

Cheers skunk , We would love to have proper playing facilities but its actually very hard to find the proper field and its a real pity cos we have funds in our account .. No point in picking any auld field and regret it later .. We will get there someday !
Loving this debate thats going on here .

[mr. man]

And your point is?

Another faceplam moment from hon the blues !! he is on a roll here !

[celticlads]

Cheers skunk , We would love to have proper playing facilities but its actually very hard to find the proper field and its a real pity cos we have funds in our account .. No point in picking any auld field and regret it later .. We will get there someday !
Loving this debate thats going on here .

We know that feeling, we also have some funds but just cant get the right location. We thought we had a deal agree earlier in the year but its since fell apart, its very frustration.

[celticlads]

All North Tipp clubs who aspire to junior success need to concentrate on their schoolboy teams 1st and lay the foundations, Clodiagh in particular, along with Ardcroney, Ballymackey, Lough Derg, Nenagh Celtic, BT Harps, Puckane and Cloughjordan all have talented 10/11/12 year old teams who seem to be well coached i.e. concentrate on playing style, not immediate results. I'm sure there are more, no offence if I omitted any teams. As for Nenagh AFC, our current crop look to be the best yet. Up Naynagh.......

Ya i would agree with you on this skunk, i think the schoolboys league done well to make 11s and 10s non competitive. It allows for more development of talent rather than win win win attitude, some players at a young age might not stand out but with game time and coaching they can often bypass the good players again they all reach 16s and youths level. Firstly a child playing any sport must enjoy it and if they do they will become more interested in the game in my opinion.

[mr. man]

Ah don't be like that, i think i made a valid point in relation to what was said before me.

Its amazing how i bring out the banter fishing rod, and all the lads here who calling me a gob****e and brainless, are the ones who are taking it hook, line and sinker.

Maybe explain yer valid point then . ! Random statements is all yer giving that dont make any sense and even a nenagh town man is slagging you at this stage ! Who would have thought that wud have happened !! You are actually reminding me of one of the nenagh town A supporters that think they are involved in their club when actually all he does is roar abuse at the opposing team with comments that dont make sense .. And the funny thing is he thinks he gets to other players which actually all they do is laugh at him .. Sad really .. Just disrespectful and hasent grown up yet and at his age he shud have done by now .. And btw , he will be the one shouting abuse at yer B team at the weekend .. He will be easily spotted.. Most lads will know him and any proper nenagh town man should be ashamed of him and probably is ..
If yer gonna bring yer rod , make sense if ya do !

[Hon-The-Blues!!]

Maybe explain yer valid point then . ! Random statements is all yer giving that dont make any sense and even a nenagh town man is slagging you at this stage ! Who would have thought that wud have happened !! You are actually reminding me of one of the nenagh town A supporters that think they are involved in their club when actually all he does is roar abuse at the opposing team with comments that dont make sense .. And the funny thing is he thinks he gets to other players which actually all they do is laugh at him .. Sad really .. Just disrespectful and hasent grown up yet and at his age he shud have done by now .. And btw , he will be the one shouting abuse at yer B team at the weekend .. He will be easily spotted.. Most lads will know him and any proper nenagh town man should be ashamed of him and probably is ..
If yer gonna bring yer rod , make sense if ya do !

Turning on our supporters now i see, you do get around, at least we have people who follow us through thick and thin, unlike yourselves. the whole village of Clough will follow ye for the big game in brickfields, yet when it comes to the cold auld sundays, all ye have is the bloody cows chewing the grass, watching in from behind the goals. And if you are talking about who i think you are, you would want to be very careful, as this person is a very well respected member of both Nenagh Afc and of North Tipp Football, and has done more for the game around North Tipp than your whole club has. Oh and not 1 Nenagh AFC person will either abuse nor begrudge any team tomorrow night, so i dont know where you get that from.

And as regards the valid point i made earlier you want explained, sorry i didnt realise you were a tad slow. But to put it simply it was said how if lads were that into soccer they would join a local club already in existence, and not create a new one yet, there was a club already in Nenagh since 1951, yet Celtic was formed in 1981, thats the point i was making.

Now sorry i have to go Wash my Club jacket for our big day tomorrow.

[celticlads]

Turning on our supporters now i see, you do get around, at least we have people who follow us through thick and thin, unlike yourselves. the whole village of Clough will follow ye for the big game in brickfields, yet when it comes to the cold auld sundays, all ye have is the bloody cows chewing the grass, watching in from behind the goals. And if you are talking about who i think you are, you would want to be very careful, as this person is a very well respected member of both Nenagh Afc and of North Tipp Football, and has done more for the game around North Tipp than your whole club has. Oh and not 1 Nenagh AFC person will either abuse nor begrudge any team tomorrow night, so i dont know where you get that from.

And as regards the valid point i made earlier you want explained, sorry i didnt realise you were a tad slow. But to put it simply it was said how if lads were that into soccer they would join a local club already in existence, and not create a new one yet, there was a club already in Nenagh since 1951, yet Celtic was formed in 1981, thats the point i was making.

Now sorry i have to go Wash my Club jacket for our big day tomorrow.

A town the size of nenagh was always going to have at least 2 clubs at some stage, my point is nowadays there are enough clubs in all areas of north tipp to cater for everyone in my opinion and clubs are formed to often only to fold a few years later. This is not good for the league, 1 major downfall of it is some clubs have folded mid season leaving teams pick up handy points in the 2nd half of the season affectting relegation and promotion. Based on what ive just stated i will refrase my question

Have you a constructive contribution to add to the converstion or are you still trying to turn on the washing machine?