FAI finances

[Stuttgart88]

Only the main chamber is in recess, the Joint Houses committees are still working (http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/...itteeschedule/ ). But you'll have to fight your way through all the Garth Brooks fans to get to a committee!

I think the fact that Garth Brooks can sell out 5 nights says it all about this country. What chance do we ever have of growing football attendances when a tenth of the country would prefer to see this?

[paul_oshea]

Ah Garth is great.....

Funny people complain about the GAA but they have by-laws and regulations in place to ensure stuff like this doesn't happen, though i'm not sure how the commercial or croke park side of it is handled.

In one sense its hard to disagree with the figures, as an organisation if he keeps bringing in more revenue then its hard to disagree with his salary proportionate to the increase in revenue year on year.

But its all down to the remit of his role. IF the focus is marketing, pr, increased revenue streams then he is doing a good job, but I dont believe thats the sole purpose of a CEO of a countrys football organisation.

[centre mid]

Was he interviewed by the PAC previously?

FAI were called before the PAC 5-6 years ago, think anybody that receives state coffers has to go the PAC every now and again.


EDIT:

here it is

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news...-25911711.html

[Eminence Grise]

I think the fact that Garth Brooks can sell out 5 nights says it all about this country. What chance do we ever have of growing football attendances when a tenth of the country would prefer to see this?

Not strictly 10% - a lot were coming from abroad, and a sizeable number had tickets for more than one concert. But it does show that we're a nation of event junkies - he's a little more 'Girth' Brooks than in his prime, and hasn't toured in years but still people will fork out a truck load of dosh for a greatest hits pension top-up benefit gig. Must be about €25m in ticket sales - that would run the league handsomely for a season.

[Stuttgart88]

Ah Garth is great.....

Funny people complain about the GAA but they have by-laws and regulations in place to ensure stuff like this doesn't happen, though i'm not sure how the commercial or croke park side of it is handled.

In one sense its hard to disagree with the figures, as an organisation if he keeps bringing in more revenue then its hard to disagree with his salary proportionate to the increase in revenue year on year.

But its all down to the remit of his role. IF the focus is marketing, pr, increased revenue streams then he is doing a good job, but I dont believe thats the sole purpose of a CEO of a countrys football organisation.

his remit should go way beyond revenue. His job is to make sure the FAI achieves its objectives, and those objectives should be far ranging.

One thought struck me: why should a CEO have a term contract? He's not a football manager. He's a full time employee like,e most of us are and should be on a standard employment contract with standard severance terms. No CEO of any organisation that I know of has a term contract.

[Stuttgart88]

FAI were called before the PAC 5-6 years ago, think anybody that receives state coffers has to go the PAC every now and again.


EDIT:

here it is

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news...-25911711.html

It's high time another hearing was called. If the FAI is run properly they should fear nothing. If there are obstacles to the FAI running football in Ireland properly and the FAI is powerless to overcome these obstacles, this platform could help.

[Charlie Darwin]

his remit should go way beyond revenue. His job is to make sure the FAI achieves its objectives, and those objectives should be far ranging.

One thought struck me: why should a CEO have a term contract? He's not a football manager. He's a full time employee like,e most of us are and should be on a standard employment contract with standard severance terms. No CEO of any organisation that I know of has a term contract.

That's what I thought. Is he not just an employee at this stage? I suppose that would create problems with "job for life" and so on though.

[paul_oshea]

his remit should go way beyond revenue. His job is to make sure the FAI achieves its objectives, and those objectives should be far ranging.

One thought struck me: why should a CEO have a term contract? He's not a football manager. He's a full time employee like,e most of us are and should be on a standard employment contract with standard severance terms. No CEO of any organisation that I know of has a term contract.

it does seem strange for a ceo alright I see it at PM level or svp equivalent but anyone at md or above would only ever be a full time employee on a standard permament employment contract.

what I would like to know is does he get all the benefits of a full time employee which he shouldn't but I'd say he does. that's where the main difference lies in a contract and permanent.

although I notice in ireland now there are a lot of fixed year contracts not your normal term contracts.

[paul_oshea]

I got this from a mate on a whatsapp group conversation last night, not sure how true it is, i imagine he copied most from somewhere else.

"Turnover comparison is a bit of a red herring. There were no TV deals in 1996. Delaney did not take over in 1997 - it was 2007. The comparison should be made between 2007 and now. Now I don't know what the turnover was in 2007 but in 2009 it was over €50m and has now dropped to €36m. In addition the salary is still more than the CEOs of Italian and Spanish FAs combined. I wouldn't mind if there were results to be seen with young players making their way through academies and turning professional. All 'our' young players are coming through English, NI or Scottish systems. Delaney's time in charge has been nothing short of a disaster for Irish football.
[23/07 19:58] +1 519-670-5842: The FAI turnover since JD took over as CEO was:
2007 - 45,270,350
2008 - 37,808,748
2009 - 51,678,904
2010 - 41,022,261
2011 - 45,912,601
2012 - 39,664,000
2013 - 36m
A drop of €9m since he took over.
Slightly more relevant than the spiel about 1996. Isn't there any journalists who query this constant harping back to 1996 to make himself look good. A decent journalist only needs to look at the grassroots, local & underage clubs, the Vantage club fiasco together with LOI to see that Delaney has been awful for the FAI but who will stand up and be counted?"

Intersting all the same.

[Stuttgart88]

The structure and organisation of Irish football needs overhaul and there appears to be little pressure from any key stakeholders to agitate for this. Everyone acquiesces at the AGM. Delaney does some things well, most notably arse licking at UEFA, but it's hard to escape the conclusion that at all levels of Irish football there is a blazer culture. Lots of people get themselves into an influential position in a little fiefdom and the FAI is just an aggregated version of these blazers. They get lots of perks like a nice trip to the Sheraton with their wives wherever the senior team plays away.

I believe that a country's football governance culture frequently reflects the broader governance culture in that country. I think it's pretty true in Ireland's case.

Delaney's role is CEO lest it be forgotten. The ceo's role is an executive position to implement the strategic direction determined by the Board. In business and other organisations the chairman or the president is an influential figure with gravitas and conviction.

I asked the question earlier: who is our Board? Owls Fan took the question quite literally and provided their names. That wasn't what I was asking though. Who are they? Where have they come from? What do they do? How did they get their position? Whose interests do they represent?

Why does our Board have no independents? Someone like Desmond or O'Brien who can attend board meetings, challenge the way things are done, offer advice from their line of work, and so on.

The bloke who runs thecoachdiary.com knows the blokes who run the SFAI. He says they're all a bunch of clueless out of touch old blokes with no understanding of the modern trends in youth football. Blazers basically.


And why is there even a SFAI?

I started the Governance thread to thrash out all these issues but it's a dull topic that doesn't attract attention. Around the time of the AGM some get on the FAI's case, but I'd like to see scrutiny coming from the ISC, the PAC, wherever...

[paul_oshea]

Do any of them actually wear blazers anymore? Where have the blazers come from? What do the blazers do now they are no longer used?

What about the financials above stutts, is it correct? That's always delaney starting, middle and final point whenever he is questioned, basically the only clear transparent thing he can prove, along with having (at least one) development coaches in every county, which actually isnt quite true, some are in border counties and take from both.

[BonnieShels]

The structure and organisation of Irish football needs overhaul and there appears to be little pressure from any key stakeholders to agitate for this. Everyone acquiesces at the AGM. Delaney does some things well, most notably arse licking at UEFA, but it's hard to escape the conclusion that at all levels of Irish football there is a blazer culture. Lots of people get themselves into an influential position in a little fiefdom and the FAI is just an aggregated version of these blazers. They get lots of perks like a nice trip to the Sheraton with their wives wherever the senior team plays away.

I believe that a country's football governance culture frequently reflects the broader governance culture in that country. I think it's pretty true in Ireland's case.

Delaney's role is CEO lest it be forgotten. The ceo's role is an executive position to implement the strategic direction determined by the Board. In business and other organisations the chairman or the president is an influential figure with gravitas and conviction.

I asked the question earlier: who is our Board? Owls Fan took the question quite literally and provided their names. That wasn't what I was asking though. Who are they? Where have they come from? What do they do? How did they get their position? Whose interests do they represent?

Why does our Board have no independents? Someone like Desmond or O'Brien who can attend board meetings, challenge the way things are done, offer advice from their line of work, and so on.

The bloke who runs thecoachdiary.com knows the blokes who run the SFAI. He says they're all a bunch of clueless out of touch old blokes with no understanding of the modern trends in youth football. Blazers basically.


And why is there even a SFAI?

I started the Governance thread to thrash out all these issues but it's a dull topic that doesn't attract attention. Around the time of the AGM some get on the FAI's case, but I'd like to see scrutiny coming from the ISC, the PAC, wherever...

It's not dull. It's just a frustrating topic. Watching from outside of the FAI is just beyond annoying and the fact that within there is absolutely no inclination to change anything makes the likes of us in the football public just feel worse.

When Rooney was in charge there was at least a semblance of long-term thinking about to take place and he got shafted. I have my own personal feelings about Fran but even I could see that he was the sort of (relative) outsider that was needed in the FAI.

Instead we now have Delaney Jr. and it has been a clear disaster since day one. There is no long-term vision in the FAI because simply there is nothing to be gained by John for a strategic vision that he won't gain from in 2020 etc.

We need a coup just like the one he staged to take over! Otherwise it's going to be a ****show from here on in where playing England and Germany every so often will be the highlights... meanwhile Scotland start qualifying regularly...

The thing is, the Junior football disaster is easily fixed, just tell them to come along or fupp off. It'll soon resolve itself.

[Stuttgart88]

Paul, I have no idea if those numbers are correct.

[BonnieShels]

FAI debt write-down totalled €11.7m, AGM hears in Athlone

The Football Association of Ireland secured a debt write-down of €11.7 million euro, delegates at their Annual General Meeting in Athlone heard today.
The Association restructured their loans during the last financial year to reduce its debt to just over €50 million.
Athlone man Paddy McCaul stepped down as FAI President after his four year tenure.
Tony Fitzgerald was elected President and Donal Conway Vice President of the Football Association of Ireland at a Special Council meeting following the FAI’s 2014 AGM.
Today's AGM was Chief Executive John Delaney's tenth at the helm of the association, a period that has been financially challenging for the FAI.
In his review of the year he said the highlight was the refinancing of the stadium debt.
The Board recently asked Delaney to continue as chief executive for another five years, a move that's expected to cost the association €1.8 million or €360,000 a year.
Delaney stated that football remains the largest and most popular sport in the country - the new Aviva Stadium season ticket has already had sales of almost 8.500.
The FAI have also just launched a new 10-year ticket for under €5,000 to replace the old Vantage Club that had failed to reach expected sales targets.
Next year, with six home internationals, including the friendly against England, the financial outlook should be more encouraging.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/inter...otalled-11-7m/

[geysir]

How do you get a debt of €61.7m reduced to a mere €50m, just with a bit of restructuring?
Water into wine pales in comparison.

[BonnieShels]

How do you get a debt of €61.7m reduced to a mere €50m, just with a bit of restructuring?
Water into wine pales in comparison.

Who are we, as mere mortals, to question Sir John.

[Stuttgart88]

Emmet Malone echoes Paul's point about the uselessness of 1996 as the reference point and provides numbers.

I'm dashing out now so maybe someone else can post the link to his full article?

[Stuttgart88]

How do you get a debt of €61.7m reduced to a mere €50m, just with a bit of restructuring?
Water into wine pales in comparison.

New lenders. I reckon Danske just wanted out so took a swift haircut to ensure a swift exit. I think the new lenders are KKR and a private financial firm affiliated to Dermot Drsmond.

[geysir]

I got this from a mate on a whatsapp group conversation last night, not sure how true it is, i imagine he copied most from somewhere else.

"Turnover comparison is a bit of a red herring. There were no TV deals in 1996. Delaney did not take over in 1997 - it was 2007. The comparison should be made between 2007 and now. Now I don't know what the turnover was in 2007 but in 2009 it was over €50m and has now dropped to €36m. In addition the salary is still more than the CEOs of Italian and Spanish FAs combined. I wouldn't mind if there were results to be seen with young players making their way through academies and turning professional. All 'our' young players are coming through English, NI or Scottish systems. Delaney's time in charge has been nothing short of a disaster for Irish football.
[23/07 19:58] +1 519-670-5842: The FAI turnover since JD took over as CEO was:
2007 - 45,270,350
2008 - 37,808,748
2009 - 51,678,904
2010 - 41,022,261
2011 - 45,912,601
2012 - 39,664,000
2013 - 36m
A drop of €9m since he took over.
Slightly more relevant than the spiel about 1996. Isn't there any journalists who query this constant harping back to 1996 to make himself look good. A decent journalist only needs to look at the grassroots, local & underage clubs, the Vantage club fiasco together with LOI to see that Delaney has been awful for the FAI but who will stand up and be counted?"

Intersting all the same.

Wrong again. A collage of such O'Shea wrongs could take forever
Delaney was at the helm in late 2004.

Re income, I'd presume not to take years in isolation, but take 2 year periods when looking at income. Then it matters who we get in a qual campaign. Then there are other factors to consider on top of that, certainly not all those factors are within Delaney's control. Considering who went before, Delaney shines like a beacon of competence. Financially, due to his input, he does manage to create the income to cover his high salary.
The factors to look at when reviewing Delaney's tenure are not just financial. What is glaring is the relative inequality of the national league compared to the focus of resources put into the international set up. The argument is that one feeds the other, but we do actually have to see the crumbs falling to the local football in order to believe it.

[BonnieShels]

Emmet Malone echoes Paul's point about the uselessness of 1996 as the reference point and provides numbers.

I'm dashing out now so maybe someone else can post the link to his full article?

Some very interested points made by a Mr Clarke at the bottom.