FAI finances

**geysir** · 05/04/2013, 2:00 PM

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

I was serious but i misheard yer man. I thought he made an arse of himself when doing his basic multiplication - but i misheard him!! More fool me.

If you misheard him, then you miswrote what you misheard

10,000 tickets at �10,000 each, that's �10million if my maths are right

....and ended up with the accurate quote.
Or your maths just sucks

Originally Posted by Junior

I know the debate has been done elsewhere on this thread and other threads of the reasons for this, however the video, suggest a failing may just have been delaying from 2007 to 2008 before launching the ticket sales.....The $hit was really beginning to hit the fan come 2008 both on and off the pitch, interesting to think could they have sold many more if they had launched 12 months earlier?

Could be that the mood of the soccer public was not that positive in 2007 about Intl football( no need to elaborate on that) and part of the FAI strategy was to get in the big name manager and then launch the ticket sales.

**elroy** · 07/04/2013, 7:08 PM

Not sure what brought on this PT piece, it is reasonably well known for a while now that the FAI administration costs are high and that its debt situation isnt great.

That in itself might be a blessing in that the debt providers will place various covenants on the FAI, which would include reducing operating costs.

Some questions/thoughts, admittedly in hindsight:

JD's comment at the time of the launch was along the lines that there are XX number of millionaires in the country, we only need YYY of these people to buy tickets. This is such a stupid and clueless comment and shows that the FAI and the ticket promoters were not living in the reality at that time and now.

It is clear from the empty corporate boxes and the premium seats at almost every game that very few were sold as 10 year tickets. I genuinely think the number actually sold is really low.

he IRFU or even GAA were and are probably not useful barometers for ticket sales, - very different products and in this case of the rugby a different customer. The IRFU were always going to sell their tickets reasonably easily - they have a consistent product that fits very nicely for the corporate sector. Clients from Ireland, UK and France can be brought to the games which are always at the weekend and in the case of the 6N are on an annual basis at the same time every year. If the IRFU had to rely on the revenue from their autumn internationals (I.e. their friendlies), then they also would experience much more difficulty.

If I were involved in scheduling our home fixtures, I would insist as far as I possibly could that as many games are scheduled on a Saturday evening or at least on a Friday evening. From a corporate and even travelling fan perspective, games on a Tuesday and Wednesday night are difficult to get to. My focus would be on selling out as many of these fixtures as I could. The friendlies are hard to sell and by and large if you can get 20k to each friendly, then that has to been seen as a success.

**Junior** · 08/04/2013, 8:44 AM

Originally Posted by elroy

If I were involved in scheduling our home fixtures, I would insist as far as I possibly could that as many games are scheduled on a Saturday evening or at least on a Friday evening. From a corporate and even travelling fan perspective, games on a Tuesday and Wednesday night are difficult to get to. My focus would be on selling out as many of these fixtures as I could. The friendlies are hard to sell and by and large if you can get 20k to each friendly, then that has to been seen as a success.

Whilst I cant disagree with you that 20k for international friendlies in the current economic and footballing (in an Irish international context) climate would be decent. However, If the FAI buiness Plan developed to ensure it could repay its share of the debt was based around crowds of 40k (and thats pure speculation on my part but Im sure it wont be far off the truth) then it cant possibly be seen as a success.

As Im sure you're aware, the fixtures that would actually have half a chance of decent attendances are the competitive qualifiers and the fixture timetable there is very much out of the FAI's hands.

**Charlie Darwin** · 20/06/2013, 2:14 AM

Small update: John Delaney states that alcohol sponsorship, which is under threat of being banned by the government, is a "significant proportion" of the €6 million the FAI receives in sponsorship income.

The IRFU, by contrast, takes in €9 million from alcohol sponsorship alone.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/spor...ship-1.1435791

**Charlie Darwin** · 03/07/2013, 5:48 PM

FAI accounts for 2012 released. They're still paying €4.8 million a year in interest alone.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/s...ne-235782.html

Most curious is this bit:

Delaney’s controversial salary dropped slightly from €400,000 to €386,666 as a result of the voluntary 10% cut he announced at that AGM.

Presumably the accountant was one of the first to be laid off.

**paul_oshea** · 03/07/2013, 6:37 PM

they were only in a position to meet interest payments — not any principal — on the stadium debt.

That's the worrying bit its not like inflation is going to shoot up 200% in 7 years or so....72 mil now will be pretty much the same in 7 years(its not an obvious statement).

**gastric** · 06/07/2013, 7:09 AM

This really is 'heads in the sand' stuff. How with twindling revenue, and with no other form of revenue to draw on, can the FAI claim they will pay this massive debt off by 2020?

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/socc...ting-1.1454757

**pineapple stu** · 06/07/2013, 10:32 PM

Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

FAI accounts for 2012 released. They're still paying €4.8 million a year in interest alone.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/s...ne-235782.html

Most curious is this bit:

Presumably the accountant was one of the first to be laid off.

Salary cut took effect from 1 September so.

**Charlie Darwin** · 06/07/2013, 10:40 PM

Ah, well spotted.

**pineapple stu** · 06/07/2013, 10:42 PM

Take back what you said about accountants.

Surprising that the interest was the same in 2011 given interest rates are going up. Presume it's not a fixed-rate loan (is there such a thing?) Have to imagine the interest charge will only go up in coming years.

**Charlie Darwin** · 06/07/2013, 10:55 PM

Never!

**Stuttgart88** · 07/07/2013, 1:36 PM

There is such thing as a fixed rate loan, and my guess is that the interest is fixed.

**geysir** · 08/07/2013, 1:08 PM

Considering this from the article,
'And the huge debt caused the association to fork out bank interest payments in 2012 of €4.8m — the same amount as the previous year.
FAI chief executive John Delaney revealed at last year’s AGM in Letterkenny they were only in a position to meet interest payments — not any principal — on the stadium debt'

the interest is most probably fixed, for this period of time at least.

**Junior** · 08/07/2013, 1:53 PM

Originally Posted by gastric

This really is 'heads in the sand' stuff. How with twindling revenue, and with no other form of revenue to draw on, can the FAI claim they will pay this massive debt off by 2020?

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/socc...ting-1.1454757

FAI are just waiting for their share of the new UEFA centralised TV monies to come in, which kicks in with the Euro16 Qualifiers (first game would be Sep14). I've no idea how much that might be but UEFA were suggesting they could get up to a 67% uplift on current TV income levels for the 53 international assocations within UEFA.

Hence why imo the article refers to a €1m capital repayment during 2013 (though I struggle to see how they will manage that along with the 4.8m€ of interest costs!). However the step up in 2014 to a €5m repayment can only be deemed possible on realising a signficant uplift in revenues in that year, i.e. The TV Revenues.

Its a risky strategy imo. As I've said previously who knows what media outlets will be willing to pay for international football tv rights in 2,3,4 years time and whether any real increase in revenues will be realised. The FAI will be reliant on UEFA's commercial negotiations (probably a good thing) who have 52 other bodies and interests/expectations they are representing/managing, many of them with much more clout than the FAI in the corriders outside Platinis's office in Zurich.......

**Alf Honn** · 08/07/2013, 2:28 PM

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

There is such thing as a fixed rate loan, and my guess is that the interest is fixed.

So that's another 5mill lost to Irish football this year again. In any other business heads would roll.

**Stuttgart88** · 08/07/2013, 2:58 PM

I'm not sure anyone really foresaw today's low interest rates back in 2006 or whenever it was the deal was struck. It's usually seen in business as sensible to lock-in your funding cost. It's not the FAI's job to speculate on interest rates. If rates had gone up they'd have been wise to lock-in.

I think it's fair to say that Danske Bank is regretting making the loan, so maybe the FAI got a better deal than the bank?

I'm critical of the FAI in other areas but I'm not that critical of the stadium costs. Hindsight has shown the timing to be terrible but they did need a home, the credit crunch and economic collapse wasn't predicted and they appointed IMG to advise on and sell the corporate tickets. Nor was it their fault that Eircom Park wasn't built. I think they should have got a lease in perpetuity from the IRFU though, and not expiring in 50(?) years. It may appear negligible now, but time catches up on everyone!

**Macy** · 08/07/2013, 3:12 PM

I've no problem with the fixed interest rate aspect, but there's no pass on size of the loan that's accruing the interest for me.

The life expectancy of the current stadium is hardly 50 years?

**jbyrne** · 08/07/2013, 3:26 PM

Originally Posted by Alf Honn

So that's another 5mill lost to Irish football this year again. In any other business heads would roll.

they were paying a lot of rent to the IRFU before the new stadium was built. if their plan to be debt free by 2020 had worked (realistic when it was drawn up about 10 years ago) it would have been a missive boost to the FAIs finances from 2020 onwards. in fact i think their plan was to be debt free before 2020 but the vantage club ticket sales were dreadful due to the economic downturn.

i dont think anyone can be critical of the FAI for their involvment in the new stadium

**geysir** · 08/07/2013, 8:22 PM

Originally Posted by Macy

I've no problem with the fixed interest rate aspect, but there's no pass on size of the loan that's accruing the interest for me.

The life expectancy of the current stadium is hardly 50 years?

Afaiu, the Irfu and the FAI (equally) share the ownership of the stadium but the IRFU own the land it's sitting on, I could be mistaken.

Considering there are sizeable football grounds all over England, one can argue that building a new Wembley was an extravaganza.
The German national team manage okay by rotating which of the big stadiums around Germany they use. There was nothing in Ireland except an antiquated Lansdowne rd. The FAI have made mistakes for sure but I must read over the old threads to see what type of good advice was being offered in anticipation of all the problems that were surely going to come.

Nevertheless, I'd argue for a non- negotiable fixed % of the income accruing from senior internationals to be funnelled back into the game rather than wait and see what crumbs are left over.

**bennocelt** · 09/07/2013, 9:48 AM

Originally Posted by jbyrne

they were paying a lot of rent to the IRFU before the new stadium was built. if their plan to be debt free by 2020 had worked (realistic when it was drawn up about 10 years ago) it would have been a missive boost to the FAIs finances from 2020 onwards. in fact i think their plan was to be debt free before 2020 but the vantage club ticket sales were dreadful due to the economic downturn.

i dont think anyone can be critical of the FAI for their involvment in the new stadium

No they should be congratulated!