What's the future direction for the league with 19 clubs?

[Jofspring]

I just feel until the league as it stands is sorted out then any new teams are doomed.

The league needs to be attractive enough that if a new club came into it people in that particular area would want to go down and see their local team competing and might bring their crowds up. For example if Tralee Dynamos came into the league and were playing SD Galway then it's not exactly going to get the locals interested in going but if they were to come in and have a Munster derby against Cork or a successful limerick in an already decent league then they have a better chance of getting the ball rolling.

[Trainee]

Are FC Carlow still an option? They got as far as provisionally applying or sommething last time didn't they?

I Think they pulled out after Fai said they would have to play home games in Buckley Park Killkenny. Its hard to see Carlow or Tralee applying for next year as if they still had an interest they surely would have remained in U19 league

[sadloserkid]

I just feel until the league as it stands is sorted out then any new teams are doomed.

The league needs to be attractive enough that if a new club came into it people in that particular area would want to go down and see their local team competing and might bring their crowds up. For example if Tralee Dynamos came into the league and were playing SD Galway then it's not exactly going to get the locals interested in going but if they were to come in and have a Munster derby against Cork or a successful limerick in an already decent league then they have a better chance of getting the ball rolling.

Agreed. But it's a real chicken and egg situation there too as it's hard for the league to appear attractive when it sheds clubs so often.

I Think they pulled out after Fai said they would have to play home games in Buckley Park Killkenny. Its hard to see Carlow or Tralee applying for next year as if they still had an interest they surely would have remained in U19 league

That was my assumption too. It's an indictment of the game in this country but there's not many real options in terms of potential clubs.

[legendz]

I think the U19 league has shown what can be done going forward. Single tier top division and a regional league below it. It is hard for the league to appear attractive. I can only see any potential clubs coming in under a regional set-up. I imagine established clubs in the first division will not be in favour of that?

[oriel]

Dundalk will be fine to see out the season, already this week the DFC Trust have donated 4k, also a host of other active fund raisers going ahead, including at bottom end (but still important) pub quizes & charity games, to the Chelsea XI game in August, and also the comedy night, headlined by Ardal O'Hanlon in Crowne Plaza (him and others giving time free, an amazing gesture), so a nice programme of events building, and at last performances and attendances on the rise, all added will see us safely end the season.

As for 2013 ?? Who knows, but a solid take over (2 bids reportably in so far as the end of July deadline looms), for the club to prosper beyond 2013, the right takeeover needs to take place, with full fans and local support.

My view forward for the LOI, a 18 team PD, with a regional North/South FD, top two possibly either promoted or at least into play off final, and a strong think of returning to winter, or adjusted summer season. Could start on 1st Sept w/e, miss out Jan, and end in late May. Thus missing out on the holiday season (when crowds go down, but clubs still fit to play in europe as season just ended in late May)

[nigel-harps1954]

What is their support base like? Do they have one?

They won't be applying. They only applied in the first place because they thought the First Division was going to be regionalised this year. When they counted the cost of expenses, they decided against entering the league.

As for support base, they'd get no more than 100 people a game. A parish club in the middle of nowhere essentially. Their ground is more secluded than Salthill's Drom.

I think the U19 league has shown what can be done going forward. Single tier top division and a regional league below it. It is hard for the league to appear attractive. I can only see any potential clubs coming in under a regional set-up. I imagine established clubs in the first division will not be in favour of that?

This..

My view forward for the LOI, a 18 team PD, with a regional North/South FD, top two possibly either promoted or at least into play off final, and a strong think of returning to winter, or adjusted summer season. Could start on 1st Sept w/e, miss out Jan, and end in late May. Thus missing out on the holiday season (when crowds go down, but clubs still fit to play in europe as season just ended in late May)

..and this.

I believe for some reason the FAI are testing the waters with the under 19 league. I have some sort of view of the league becoming a 16/18 team premier with two 8/10 team regional divisions below it. For this obviously there would have to be more clubs, but I think the idea of a regional division would appeal much more to the likes of Carlow, Fanad, Letterkenny, Tralee, Cobh, et all, to build up and not have too much travel involved.

For me, it's the only way forward at this stage. But, the big thing is, the option simply has to be there every season for the winners of the LSL, USL and MSL and a Connaught team to enter the league each season via a play-off. They don't have to take it, but the option should be there for them.

[Trainee]

There will never be enough clubs in First Div to even consider regionalising it. Anything less than 8 teams in a group would mean the First Div season would be too short and everyone would loose interest very quickly.

[gufc2000]

It would be very hard regionalise the First Division if you had an 18 team Premier Division, you'd need another 20 clubs to have two even divisions below the Prem. 14 teams in the Premier would be ideal, but the amount of games would be impractical (3 rounds gives 39 which is too much, 2 rounds give 26 which is too little).

[White Horse]

My own perference is for a 16 team single tier League of Ireland, the reintroduction of a reserve league (regionalised) that also includes some of newer clubs that are building themselves up.

I'd prefer to see the summer season stay as it puts less difficulties on maintaining pitches and should help the top clubs in Europe when the league gets stronger.

[legendz]

There will never be enough clubs in First Div to even consider regionalising it. Anything less than 8 teams in a group would mean the First Div season would be too short and everyone would loose interest very quickly.

Agreed. At best I can only see two groups of 8 below a Premier of 12. In recent years I thought it was a possibility if Castlebar and Tullamore had stayed on board. I'm not sure they'd have withdrawn from the last A Championship had a regional first division been on the cards. If ye take Fanad, Castlebar, Tullamore, GUST, Cobh, Carlow and Tralee. These are 7 potential clubs that could've been lined up for a regional first division this season, 1 short of being able to form two groups of 8. Now again it has to be stressed, will first division clubs be open to the idea of a regionalised first division? My understanding is the idea was mooted but rejected. Following Monaghan's withdrawal and uncertainty on the number of clubs in Galway, an opportunity has been lost for the regionalised second tier to come in.

[gufcfan]

I don't understand how people think a single-tier league of Ireland is a such a fantastic idea. Anyone outside of the running for European places will have massive drop offs in crowds. No threat of relegation would have a terrible effect on crowds. Like who the hell would care if a team was say 2 points off 15th place with 2 games left. There has to be relegation and a single-tier division is just too many teams.

[Lim till i die]

There aren't going to be enough teams around in the next few years to have anything other than a laughable second tier anyway tbh.

Cut to the bone amateur/reserve regional leagues is the way to go imo.

I came up with an incredibly complicated, drawn out, league of Ireland system while bored at home a few weeks back, I'll try throw up the jist of it tonight for people to poke holes in.

[White Horse]

No threat of relegation would have a terrible effect on crowds.

Did the threat of relegation pack 'em in in Terryland last year.

It never has in Oriel Park.

[gufc2000]

Did the threat of relegation pack 'em in in Terryland last year.

It never has in Oriel Park.

Ya we got 1400 at the play-off against Monaghan.

Previous years saw big crowds for games against the likes of Bray, Finn Harps, Longford etc. 600 GUFC heads also went to Belfield in 2008 on the last night of the season. You mean to tell me that 600 people would have gone to Belfield if there was nothing at stake?

[nigel-harps1954]

Ya we got 1400 at the play-off against Monaghan.

Previous years saw big crowds for games against the likes of Bray, Finn Harps, Longford etc. 600 GUFC heads also went to Belfield in 2008 on the last night of the season. You mean to tell me that 600 people would have gone to Belfield if there was nothing at stake?

So what's better about sitting mid-table in the first division with nothing to play for?

At least in a single division you'll be playing the top teams who will bring bigger away crowds.

I don't know about you, but I'd prefer the scenario of, a hypothetical 18 team league of Ireland, where Harps are sitting 16th place nothing to play for, a game against Sligo, who are challenging for honours, who will bring 200+ fans to Ballybofey which will generate more interest in the game locally too, rather than, another typical First Division season where we're sitting mid-table, playing Wexford Youths, where a total of 5 fans come up and 400 locals.

See the difference?

[legendz]

It's a hard topic to discuss when there's no hard proof of where the next club(s) are going to come from. At the moment the first division is heading in the direction of a 7 team division.

Are there any leagues in Europe with a single tier division? In other sports you can look at the Pro 12 in rugby but they've brought in play-offs. Maybe the FAI will take a leaf out of their books with a rename to Premier 12 and play-offs etc!

Without getting an answer, I sense established first division clubs will not accept a regional second tier? Where does the league go from here? How many clubs were awarded a Premier licence for 2012? If licencing is ever to become credible in the top tier there has to be a standard. Without trying to magic up clubs I listed 7 earlier who could have joined a second tier. Now I can well be wrong but I think a second tier of that nature would be more appealing for more clubs to feed into the league.

Getting back to hard facts anyway and where we are, has there been any word on the process for clubs to join the league next year?

[Neish]

Possible 2013 teams:


Cobh could also be returning to the league. That puts the total at 18 teams. The Premier will probably remain with 12 teams. If Dundalk get a license, it will be 19 teams. The FAI would surely have to add another team. Maybe Tralee, or if they solve the Galway problem, they probably create another one in Donegal with Fanad of Letterkenny like the U19 league. They couldn't have a 6 team First Division though tbh, I wouldn't be surprised.

If more then one Galway club's isn't working what makes you think more then one Donegal club will?

[Charlie Darwin]

If more then one Galway club's isn't working what makes you think more then one Donegal club will?

Because neither of the Galway clubs has any fans and the one that actually had fans was run into the ground by a board of idiots.

[Sam_Heggy]

Because neither of the Galway clubs has any fans and the one that actually had fans was run into the ground by a board of idiots.

And the 2 other Donegal sides do?

[Charlie Darwin]

Is there a third that has considered applying to the League? Harps have had their problems but if run correctly they won't go under like Galway. If Fanad have a sensible business plan and find a way to attract crowds, they could well co-exist with Harps (and Derry).