Fields of Athenry - Ireland v Spain, Gdansk

[geysir]

Listen, there is no need to get narky - its my OPINION - not my problem. If my OPINION is not shared by others then I have absolutely no issue with that.

Personally I interpret singing with happiness, happiness after a 4-0 defeat signals to everyone else not there that; we are losing but we are still happy to be here. I do not understand why we would spend so much blood, sweat and tears qualifying if when we arrived we were merely happy to be there. To me, that was the message that came accross, and I don't, like others, understand that mentality. (to use a Trap word) .

Why do you think I'm narky? you expressed your opinion about how others felt and I'm telling you that's not what they said they felt.

[tetsujin1979]

For anyone wondering why we didn't leave during the game, it's quite simple really - there wasn't anywhere to go!
If it was in Dublin, then it's easy enough to leave to the nearest pub, or the city centre or to head on home. In Gdansk, the stadium is a outside the city, and a little isolated. We took a taxi there, but the trams weren't running when we left the stadium after the game, there was no buses, or taxis, and the only pub was across the road in an unfinished hotel (or business centre, not really sure what it was) selling beer!

Good point that if we left at 4-0 down to Germany, people would complain about that too Stutts.

[Real ale Madrid]

Why do you think I'm narky?

Usually when you start a sentence with "your problem is...." it usually points to something irritating. Sorry if not meant but I can only read what's in front of me

you expressed your opinion about how others felt and I'm telling you that's not what they said they felt.

I expressed my opinion on the type of message that, singing after a 4-0 defeat, sends to the rest of the world.

[Real ale Madrid]

I dunno. At 4-0 down in a qualifier people would have left and then they'd have got a rollicking for not sticking around!

RAM, my interpretation was that it was just a grim acceptance of circumstance (not the performance) and that after 10 years of isolation if the team was going out with a whimper, we certainly weren't going to. Part of the spectacle of big time football is the crowd (e.g., I love watching St. Pauli, Sporting Gijon, Bilbao...the fan culture is great). If the Irish team couldn't contribute to the spectacle, the crowd would. Trust me, the mood was actually very despondent among everyone, but not as miserable as say, Israel away, because there was nothing sudden about this car crash.

Fair enough I suppose, I probably would have been singing myself If I managed to get there. At the end of the day I just found the "jaysus arn't we great " stuff hard to swallow after such a crushing defeat.

[geysir]

A similar event happened after the play off defeat to Holland at Anfield when hopelessly outplayed by a superior team, I doubt that the singing then had to do with acceptance of a redundant style of play by a team past its best. Yet some fuss was made afterwards about the fan's behaviour, 'aren't we great' and all that.

[bennocelt]

That was a bit different Geysir, that was a vocal sendoff to Jack and an appreciation of what he did for Irish football

[geysir]

Maybe so, I wrote 'similar' not the same. Jack had not retired by then nor did he want to, nor had he indicated he would. And the rest of the watching world were not exactly au fait with what the Irish fans were thinking when they sang the FOA, the Dutch fans accepted it for what it was, a massive support for the team even in the event of being hopelessly outplayed and not an acceptance of the standard of failure.

[brine3]

Just seen that TV3 went to Dublin airport to interview returning fans and asked them, "So, what do you think about Roy Keane criticising the supporters?"

Jesus, he didn't criticise the fans like that. Why is the Irish media turning into the British tabloid press?

And now Dunphy is lining up and saying it is disgraceful what Keane said.


And what did he say?
"Listen, let's not just go along for the sing-song"

How is that a disgrace?

[bennocelt]

Sorry geysir you are very wrong there. There was no doubt that was the final curtaincall on jacks time with the Irish team, the fans at the game knew it and the viewers knew at home. The papers had the pull outs of his time with Ireland in the papers the next day as well. It wasnt mentioned beforehand, of course, as we could have qualified, but was very much expected. It was a great ending. VERY different

[geysir]

Just seen that TV3 went to Dublin airport to interview returning fans and asked them, "So, what do you think about Roy Keane criticising the supporters?"

Jesus, he didn't criticise the fans like that. Why is the Irish media turning into the British tabloid press?

And now Dunphy is lining up and saying it is disgraceful what Keane said.


And what did he say?
"Listen, let's not just go along for the sing-song"

How is that a disgrace?

That's the peculiarity of the Dunphy Keane dynamics.

Roy's comment was made in the context of the end of the Spanish game, the insinuation was that the fans were content with the fare offered and their singing of the FOA was an example of how they accepted low standards and applauded failure.

[geysir]

Sorry geysir you are very wrong there. There was no doubt that was the final curtaincall on jacks time with the Irish team, the fans at the game knew it and the viewers knew at home. The papers had the pull outs of his time with Ireland in the papers the next day as well. It wasnt mentioned beforehand, of course, as we could have qualified, but was very much expected. It was a great ending. VERY different

So everybody knew in 1996 that we were not celebrating a humiliating defeat and now the fans do a similar thing, sing the FOA at the end of a humiliating defeat and suddenly they are supposed to be celebrating failure and low standards.

[brine3]

Yes, the singing after the playoff in 1995 was deffo a thank you to Jack.

It was the worst kept secret in football at that time that it was his last campaign.

[bennocelt]

So everybody knew in 1996 that we were not celebrating a humiliating defeat and now the fans do a similar thing, sing the FOA at the end of a humiliating defeat and suddenly they are supposed to be celebrating failure and low standards.

eh? As mentioned a send off for big Jack, a very moving one as well.

[OwlsFan]

Personally I interpret singing with happiness, happiness after a 4-0 defeat signals to everyone else not there that; we are losing but we are still happy to be here. I do not understand why we would spend so much blood, sweat and tears qualifying if when we arrived we were merely happy to be there. To me, that was the message that came accross, and I don't, like others, understand that mentality. (to use a Trap word) .

So when your team is say 0-1 down I assume you are not happy and do not sing to support your side because you are unhappy.

The use of the word "sing" is misleading. I prefer to call it support and the way supporters express their support for a team is by singing. It was also not "we all dream of a team of Gary Breens" or other jocular songs like that. It was the Fields of Athenry. An emotive, expressive song about Irishness and our pride in being Irish no matter WHAT the circumstances. We supported our team despite being stuffed by the world champions. That's what supporters are supposed to do despite being unhappy. Of course the fans were happy to be there but not with the result. However, in football, your team can be stuffed but that doesn't mean you turn on them. Huge disappointment with the result but you still support your team. Sing = support but does not = happy. I have no doubt that some fans did not sing and left the stadium. We all have different ways of dealing with defeat.

Yes, the "best fans in the world" is irritating but that has nothing to do with the issue.

As mentioned elsewhere (I think), I have seen German and Turkish supporters singing in the Champions League despite the fact that their clubs are getting a hammering. It is not unique to the Irish.

As Vincent Hogan said it was not celebrating defeat but dealing with the immedicacy of defeat.

[DannyInvincible]

Personally I interpret singing with happiness, happiness after a 4-0 defeat signals to everyone else not there that; we are losing but we are still happy to be here. I do not understand why we would spend so much blood, sweat and tears qualifying if when we arrived we were merely happy to be there. To me, that was the message that came accross, and I don't, like others, understand that mentality. (to use a Trap word) .

Surely song can be utilised to express all sorts of emotions, ranging from anguish to sorrow to unbridled joy. Not all songs have happy themes, and especially not 'The Fields of Athenry'. I wouldn't view the end-of-game singing in such oversimplified terms as the fans accepting our trouncing in celebratory fashion just because we made it there. You can be dismayed by a performance but still sing your heart out for your team. The two aren't necessarily contradictory. I would never resort to booing my team after a poor performance, unless it was abundantly clear the players didn't give the slightest toss.

[paul_oshea]

Can people not put this down to, as a repressed people for centuries, by singing when all is lost and there appears to be no hope, it shows to the world that no matter what, when we are down we are not out, that through adversity we will still battle on, that no matter what is thrown at us, or how often we are knocked down, that we get back up. Just like we have with this recession. Unlike the greeks.

Or that when we are on holidays and up for the craic we will sing away when loaded.

[Bungle]

I'm just at wroclaw airport now.had an unreal 2 weeks where the only downside was the results, in fact more the appalling quality of our football. However, reading some of the comments on this page has. annoyed me something else. Yes many of our fans are event junkies but what right to fans like me who go to every home game have to judge them. Many of those fans sung their hearts out for the team and created a carnival type atmosphere. Good luck to them

To be honest, I can in part agree with keane. As a nation, we often thrive at being glorious losers. However, I'd rather our fans dress up as leprechauns and hit riot police over the head with an inflatavle hammer, rather than be lads who live for clubs like dynamo zagreb or lech poznan and try to kick off. It says a lot more for us as fans that the zagreb ultras and the lech ulttas left us sing like loons, rather than kick off with us.

[paul_oshea]

Yep bungle, its hte fools on here who dont attend games that are the first to complain. Id ignore the comments on here to be honest, as they are so out of touch its unreal.

[brine3]

I don't attend matches at Lansdowne Road because I don't live in Ireland.

Now I am reading that to say maybe there are certain times the singing is not merited is to say we should become Dynamo Zagreb rioters. That's obviously not what I am saying.

I am very proud of our support almost 99.9% of the time, but in my opinion losing 4-0 isn't the time to sing. Good luck to the others if they want to sing, each person to themselves. And I was honestly impressed by it. I just think the motivation was to make our support look good on the European stage. And it worked. All those foreign fans are commenting about how great we are on YouTube. But we all know the reaction to a 4-0 loss would be much different if it was a qualifier, and if the rest of Europe wasn't watching. So I don't find the singing to have been genuine in this case. But that's just my opinion.

[SkStu]

Yep bungle, its hte fools on here who dont attend games that are the first to complain. Id ignore the comments on here to be honest, as they are so out of touch its unreal.

Superfan syndrome.