I suppose for some people, the thought of your team losing, if the team really meant anything to you, is gut wrenching. As we all know, it can leave you in a state where you want to beat the wife and kick the dog and lock yourself in a room for a week. Particularly if you've built yourself up for a particular game/tournament. That's how I react to defeat. Some people hurt that way but react by singing.Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
The suspicion is that there were a lot of people out there who weren't really hurt by the defeats and just sang along because "begorrah aren't we a great little country and wasn't the beer good and shur it's just an ould sing a long and bit of fun anyway and I'm on me holidays".
If someone was really hurting inside and decided to sing to deal with it, then I take my hat off to them. It's just hard to believe that there were so many of that type of person at the Spain and Italy games.
So why do fans bother singing at all then, ever?
Jaysus, if they'd turned up in hordes and stayed quiet (as they often do at Lansdowne) they'd get criticised too. It's hard to see how they can win.
Turn up and sing. Embarrassing.
Turn up and don't sing. Embarrassing.
Don't turn up. Barstoolers.
I don't think Germany would have felt compelled to sing in such circumstances but these have been ten hard years for RoI fans and I think they're within their rights to make the most of it while they're there. As far as I could tell, the FoA started in the corner to Shay's right where all the away regulars were (I think) located. If that's the case, then these guys can behave how they want. If it's not the case, it doesn't change my point.
We'd all have preferred if we were celebrating a result, but singing and showing pride in your team and country isn't cringeworthy at all.
Lack of support for the LOI is an entirely different matter, as is just being happy to be there - which was not the case for the vast majority. If some people were just there for the party then that's their call, but I think it'd be wrong to assume that this was the representative portion of the crowd.
Last edited by Stuttgart88; 19/06/2012 at 1:01 PM.
Barney, I react on my gut instincts. I feel sick sometimes when we lose or drop silly points. Israel home and away (worst feeling since the Hand era for me), Slovakia away (2-2), Cyprus away and many others down the years hurt like hell. Trust me, by 80 minutes in Gdansk the hurt had long since set in but to me it just didn't feel as bad as, say, Israel away, because we could see it coming and it was expected. Sure I had some naive hope that we'd be hard for Spain to play against but deep down there was no real negative surprise and all that was left was to sing. Also, the reaction was in some way showing that we were taking the defeat on the chin, rather than going off into a sulk.
I've no problem with fans singing at all. And if it happened at a LOI ground then I wouldn't give this a second thought. And I'm sure there were genuine fans singing and fair play to them. However, I'd also bet my bottom dollar that there were people who had barely been to any of the qualifiers, have rarely set foot inside a LOI ground, have only gone to see their English team once or twice in their lifetimes that were singing and are revelling in the "best fans in the world" tag and that's a bit tough to take.
Fair enough, can't argue with that at all.
I'd say you're right but I also think you might be overestimating the numbers. I can tell you for sure that the guy behind me was an ignorant ill-informed tw@t!
Here's a post of mine from another forum:
I have no issue whatsoever with people singing after games - they can do what they like, singing or booing, it make no difference to me in terms of them being a 'real fan.'I got up at 3.30am here in Tokyo to watch the game, and it was the high point of what was otherwise a nightmare.
I don't see what the fuss is about really, although I can agree that there is a slightly annoying element of "Jaysus aren't we great?" about the whole thing (much like after we didn't boo the English anthem in Croke park).
I don't think there is any link whatsoever between the 'goodness' or 'realness' of a fan and how they react after a defeat. People point out that the Germans, for example, wouldn't have reacted in the same way, and that's probably true, but any idea that this makes them better fans, or that they care more about the team than the singing fans, doesn't make any sense to me.
I just wonder whether a lot of people around the world watching the Irish fans behave so well will imagine that LOI games must be like a microcosm of that game - thousands of loyal fans proud even in defeat. I wonder would they still be using such glowing terms about those fans if they knew that a significant percentage of them have next to no interest in the senior league in their own country.
Last edited by osarusan; 19/06/2012 at 1:27 PM.
After having a few days to reflect, I'll try and put down my thoughts again on the singing...it might be a bit "stream of consciousness"...
Singing after that tanking and after the poor tactics and standard of play we had seen over 2 games doesn't sit right.
I am sure it was well intended however it was totally misplaced.
Italy would have been a better occasion to sing for the team. We kind of turned up at times.
When now do we get to voice our dissatisfaction at the anti-football/tripe we have been served up by Trap?
Facebook in the immediate aftermath is what really p*ssed me off. The reflective glory that so many people were basking in because the "fans were brilliant" just misses the point in so many ways.
It's reflective of our mentality on a broader scale and that's where the crux of the problem lies.
The video of a very drunk JD with the smattering of fanboys shushing the one guy trying to make a point about the state of Irish football is a disgrace and is also reflective of the mentality of our fans/nationality.
"were here for the beer and the singsong". Sad.
I like high energy football. A little bit rock and roll. Many finishes instead of waiting for the perfect one.
I think the point of that song was to defy Roy Keane, having probably misunderstood what he said. Really eekers, if you're determined to find fault you can find it anywhere I suppose.
I could barely hear anything in that JD clip on youtube. Was there definitely someone trying to take issue with the state of irsih football with him, or was it just a big silly mush in with the crows shushing so they could hear what JD had to say?
I don't visit Facebook but there's always a big "werent the fans great" thing in Ireland after these events. The big question was whether there were 30,000 so-called barstoolers out for a jolly with only 5,000 proper fans (whatever they may be) truly representative of Irish dootball support or was it more the other way around? I'm not sure Facebook, Joe Duffy, The Star or Marion Finucane can answer that one.
I thought the support was great and just showed how long the last 10 years have been for us. I think the 10 years is a major part of the context this debate has to be framed within.
It's a sign when you're getting more passionate Stutts, your spelling tends to go awry.
Yes, I didn't see any crows anywhere. Just a crowd.
Wrt the JD video, the guy was trying to make a point to him about Irish footie. He's a Bohs fan.
I have my own theories about the nature of irish sports fans of all persuasions but I'm not going to get into it now...
I like high energy football. A little bit rock and roll. Many finishes instead of waiting for the perfect one.
might want to listen to the full chant for the full reason why we sang when we wanted to.
For what it's worth, my opinion on the singing is as follows (sorry if I'm repeating what anyone else has said I'm just back from Poland and I've not read through the thread)
Russia were fined for the behaviour of their fans in Warsaw and have a six point penalty hanging over their heads
Croatia have been fined twice for the behaviour of their fans in three games
England have an investigation into a pitch invasion
We moved the equivalent population of Ennis to another country, where the fans caused no trouble, impressed the locals so much that they never wanted us to leave and have the mayor of Gdansk on record as saying he will nominate us for a UEFA Fair Play award, but for whatever reason we can't accept the praise.
Seriously, what is wrong with us?
We are a bunch of scoop monkeys that's what.
Completely with ya Tets.
DID YOU NOTICE A SIGN OUTSIDE MY HOUSE...?
Last edited by tricky_colour; 20/06/2012 at 3:44 AM.
As people have previously pointed out, there has to be a disconnect with us singing after a defeat and the behaviour of other supporters- this is out of context to the discussion.
Irish fans have behaved and made friends on an away trip the exact same as they always do - they spend loads of money, they don't cause hassle, the fun us always good natured etc. etc. No one is denying that we are not the No.1 fans in the world I think - and we don't need to sing at the end of crushing defeat to prove it.
I wonder how the reaction would be different if we lose 4-0 at home to Germany in the WC qualifiers - will we all stick around after the game for 10 mins and sing the fields of Athenry ? The place would be half empty at the 75 min mark, there will be a nice round chorus of boo's in the stadium at the full time whistle and Denis O'Brien will have to pay Trap his severance the morning after.
Why was it so different after this tournament? What was the point of 4 years of hard work if when we got to the big stage we get destroyed? The players themselves weren't accepting of that.
But the fans, by singing for so long and so loud, send out a message of acceptance, thats how I read it anyway. - Win, lose we are on the booze, and that does our reputation a disservice imo.
Your problem is that you interpreted it as a message of acceptance. I didn't, neither did the fans from Foot.ie who were there, and most probably the fans who regularly go the away games, didn't.
I don't see any or much difference between our fans and the Swedish/Danish, fans from one of the smaller countries who turn up in numbers to watch their team play the big boys, bring colour and go home withhout creating a rumpus.
Listen, there is no need to get narky - its my OPINION - not my problem. If my OPINION is not shared by others then I have absolutely no issue with that.
Personally I interpret singing with happiness, happiness after a 4-0 defeat signals to everyone else not there that; we are losing but we are still happy to be here. I do not understand why we would spend so much blood, sweat and tears qualifying if when we arrived we were merely happy to be there. To me, that was the message that came accross, and I don't, like others, understand that mentality. (to use a Trap word) .
I dunno. At 4-0 down in a qualifier people would have left and then they'd have got a rollicking for not sticking around!
RAM, my interpretation was that it was just a grim acceptance of circumstance (not the performance) and that after 10 years of isolation if the team was going out with a whimper, we certainly weren't going to. Part of the spectacle of big time football is the crowd (e.g., I love watching St. Pauli, Sporting Gijon, Bilbao...the fan culture is great). If the Irish team couldn't contribute to the spectacle, the crowd would. Trust me, the mood was actually very despondent among everyone, but not as miserable as say, Israel away, because there was nothing sudden about this car crash.
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