Heart attack football star Fabrice Muamba said on Twitter: “Credit to the Irish fans the way they support the team. It’s incredible.”
Supporters aren't children that need praising because they performed like reasonable, responsible adults at a match. To me it could be likened to the Gardai knocking on my door congratulating me for not breaking any laws lately because the fellow next door was arrested or the woman down the street didn't pay her tv license.
The fact that our fans will have sent out a positive image to all those watching of the game while the Russian and Croatians didn't is enough for them and something they'll remember. Because we all know how corrupt FIFA and UEFA refereeing is, giving them good reason why its beneficial for us to be at their tournaments will more than likely reap dividends.
Speak for yourself. IMO, since the first game here, the officiating has been excellent overall. The wee frenchman has done good.Originally Posted by Murfinator
On other matters, Roy's comments are clear enough, they are made in the context of the fans singing TFOA at the end of a game, that fans should not go along now and then for the sing song. Roy is clearly insinuating that those fans were there for the sing song. 'Now and then' refers to our now and then appearance at Finals.
Roy said it was nonsense that players were speaking after the game on how great the supporters are. That comment from Roy was made in the context of the post match interview with Andrews, who was asked his opinion about the fans. You could hardly hear the interview with the din.
Then we have the advent of the ubersupporter, the supporter with the superior attitude who thinks he knows what's what. The one who thinks everybody else is stupid unless they agree with him. That any fan is a brainless muppet who stood to sing TFOA.
Yes I agree with Roy to some extent, some Irish people do need to change their mentality
Did Roy offer any constructive opinion on what had changed with us since 2002 when we went honourably toe for toe with Spain at the WC finals (and without our form player) and maybe what football related things should change or is it all the same chatter about changing mentality?
Last edited by geysir; 16/06/2012 at 5:39 PM.
Being in the minority isn't always a bad thing.I can take or leave the video. People are free to sing as they please. In different circumstances (say, for example, we went through), perhaps I'd be a bit more consumed by the reaction of the fans.
But combined with our performances on the pitch against both Croatia and Spain, I thought the fans' reaction to elimination made for a tragic scene. I'd be more concerned about fixing the Irish game, than the Irish fans.
End Apartheid Now! One Team in Ireland!
Nothing more tragic than a fair weather supporter and a sore loser.
I think you're deliberately missing my point about what I see as tragic.
And there's nothing at all tragic about wanting better from the team, by the way. Neither is an unwillingness to sing after a loss a sign of a 'fair weather' supporter.
End Apartheid Now! One Team in Ireland!
Tonight, I'm sitting watching Russia and Greece, at home, because I tried to do it out with locals, or with non-locals, but tonight I wanted to see fully how the match comes across on the small screen. And you know, it's nothing. What happened at the end of the match with Spain was truly special. I was there with 15-16,000 supporters watching a big screen, and while the majority would have classed themselves (at the beginning) as Spanish fans - amazing how many Barcelona and Spanish fans there are now that they're successful - but the whole place fell silent, as the commentators did, when The Fields of Athenry took over the scene. It was a very Irish scene, something that touched anyone with a drop of Irishness in them (note I said Irishness, not blood). I had people telling me that I should be proud as so few would try so hard yet be dignified in defeat. And while we can say, it's the story of our lives or our history, could I say that to a Russian? A Pole? A Croatian? I am very proud to be associated with the vast majority of Irish supporters not fans, like the scum that threw bananas at Balotelli. Who used a public holiday to incite violence or the scum to reacted to the incitement. Roy Keane's comments were twisted to make good copy. Looking at Daniel McDonnell's article in the Indo today and he's simply continuing his paymasters agenda - discredit O'Brien. When our media and nation get it into our heads that the sky leagues are not the be all and end all of football, THEN our football will grow.
No I am pretty sure I posted it in here.
Last edited by tricky_colour; 16/06/2012 at 9:44 PM.
Being utterly depressed with our showing at this tournament and belting out a proud and emotional rendition of 'The Fields of Athenry' in defeat need not be incompatible. Nobody wants to see Ireland continually fail and nobody wants to celebrate that when it happens. We all want what is best for Irish football, but I just don't know if most Irish people see it. The players certainly didn't head off to Poland in holiday mode, whether Keane wants to imply they did or not. I thought the singing was admirable and dignified and it did give me a lump in my throat. It still does when I re-watch the video. However, there were 25,000 Irish fans in Gdansk the other night. The League of Ireland, on the other hand, would be lucky to get such a figure attending a full series of games over one weekend. It's just a pity that so many Irish fans valiant in defeat fail to make a connection between the defeat and the inept development infrastructure we have in place in Ireland.
What was Keane's solution, other than changing our mentality as players and supporters? We didn't lose on Sunday night simply because of mentality. We'd already lost the game years ago. The final result was just a wake-up call.
I already posted it in the league forum, but thought this was an interesting piece:
'Inferior tactics, inferior technique, inferior attitude - Euro 2012 embarrassment must bring forth a new Ireland': http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/3284/...-attitude-euro
What is required now is a thorough post-mortem of, not only Euro 2012, but the slow disintegration of Irish football. We cannot be expected to hone a football identity while the collapse and neglect of clubs in the Airtricity League continues. Dundalk can barely submit a week-on-week budget and the list of defunct clubs stretches uncomfortably long in the recent past.
Ireland's fans have been praised for following their national team through the thick and thin of Euro 2012 but it is a conservative estimation that less than 5% of those present in Poland will be present at a League of Ireland ground next weekend when domestic action recommences. Instead, the Manchester United jerseys and the Liverpool colours will be back on and plans will be made for a trip to Old Trafford or Anfield.
Try explaining that to a Dinamo Zagreb fan or a Celta Vigo fan. I'm sure the reverence towards Ireland's fabled support would become dubious. The supporters were lauded for singing until the final whistle. Four-nil down and singing. Asking for more. Like the nation itself voting yes in the Fiscal Pact Referendum, asking for more punishment. Enough is enough. There should have been rebellion, distaste, disgust. People have spent money they simply don't have to go to Poland and watch that rubbish. It is an insult. But it won't change so long as the supporters are identified as the perfect football fan.
And while the shunning of domestic football continues, Ireland will lose its best talents, early, to England. Promising young players will have the football coached out of them, as has been the case for generations. The Irish national team was the only squad at Euro 2012 not to have a player supplied to it by its own domestic league. That must change.
Is that what he will be known as from now on?
I think you're wrong here. I think it is important for UEFA to highlight positive fan behaviour to show other fans that violence and nastiness is not needed to create a good football atmosphere.
I'd have to agree with the sentiments of your posts DI. There is a lot wrong with Irish football that needs to be addressed, LOI attendances being one. But I think what Euro 2012 has shown us, is that the quality of our players are way behind other countries and our football philosophy is outdated. The way our schoolboys are coached is flawed, and we can't depend on the english league system to produce technically good players for us. They can't even do it for themselves.
Roy is talking about how the media are always going on about our great fans and how good craic we are. He agrees with this, but finds it all a bit patronising. Frankly, so do I. The paddies are great fun but can't play football. That's how we're viewed around Europe and he knows it from being in contact with football people around Europe. He wants us to be great fun AND to play great football.
It was him as captain who drove us to the World Cup in 2002 remember. We were drawn in a group with two of the best teams in Europe, and he refused to "hold the hands up and acknowledge that the other team is better." We didn't just heroically resist attacks of the other teams like previous Ireland teams did. No, we went out and owned their midfields. It's that winning mentality that brought him success and it's that winning mentality that makes him angry when he sees his country getting battered 3-1 and 4-0 at a finals. I admit that they way he said it didn't sound great, but in general I agree with him and you must understand that this man wants only the best for Ireland. He is essentially saying that the fans deserve better.
Last edited by brine3; 17/06/2012 at 11:32 AM.
When I saw the interview I didn't think Keane was slagging off the fans. He was having a go at the team. And he had another go yesterday blaming the senior players. But like other posters I'm waiting for Keane's solution.
But the former Manchester United midfielder is ready to stand by his comments, especially if challenged by players he believes do not deserve their place in the side.
"The likes of (Robbie) Keane, Shay Given, Richard Dunne, John O'Shea and Damien Duff are picked every game as they have a big reputation. A reputation for what? They hadn't qualified for anything in 10 years," he said.
"They love having a dig back when I say something but I tell you now, I'll be ready if they do because players have to be accountable for how the team did.
"I'm trying to be constructive but the manager and players all have to be accountable. It's not good shrugging our shoulders and having a sing-song."
Keane did seek to clarify his comments about the supporters, though, adding: "People seem to have misunderstood me. I've no problems with the fans singing. It's great that they back the team during and before games - but should they really stay on long after the final whistle cheering?
"There's a danger that the players think that what has happened on the pitch is acceptable, when it's not."
Yeah thats all very true but it does seem a little hypocritical when they very same man walked away from a world cup when he could have made such a difference to the team and his country. Did the fans deserve better then?
What about as a professional showing respect to your manager and supporters?
Keane IMHO is full of shi and is just a younger version of Dunphy.
He is not exactly giving us any clear solutions either? But he wasnt much good at managment himself
This is the only bit of Roys (further) comments I've a problem with and can only retort with a question -what mode of response, from the support, to a heavy defeat would he have preferred? The booing the Dutch team got after they lost 2-1 to Germany? ...or would he have to preffered to see them sullenly stream out before the final whistle? If the latter then that's remenicent of his "prawn sandwich brigade" that used apparently irk him so in his Old trafford days.
I think he also underestimates the Irish squads cognitive abilities to a somewhat sensationalist degree as well.
" I wish to God that someone would be able to block out the voices in my head for five minutes, the voices that scream, over and over again: "Why do they come to me to die?"
In the passing of time I have come to think that perhaps he should have remained in Saipan in 2002, as top notch facilities in Japan were only a few days away. But his reasons for his outburst were once again because he wanted to win and he wanted only the best for Ireland and had seen the shambles of a preparation that had gone on in the Irish teams for decades. You may disagree with his reaction but his reasons were genuine.Yeah thats all very true but it does seem a little hypocritical when they very same man walked away from a world cup when he could have made such a difference to the team and his country. Did the fans deserve better then?
We're not talking about a player here who was sent home because he was out partying, or failed a drugs test. He demanded perfection for his team and was driven to win... to an absurd degree some might say, but that's what made him the player he was.
Keane demands the best and people keep slagging him for it. Maybe we didn't deserve him? If he had been playing for another small football country - like Sweden, Denmark, Belgium - the organisation would have been top notch and no Saipan bustup would have happened. Those countries may be no great shakes but they do the utmost to extract 100% of potential from their players. We have to stop putting up with second best.
What Keane is saying is, yeah, the fans are great, but let's not allow that to distract from the fact that the football has been rubbish. It's not a very radical statement to be honest. But then the media as usual portray it as Keane the madman having a go at the fans.
Keane may not be a good manager in the modern arena because in a way he is too bluntly honest for the modern media. He might have been a good manager 30-40 years ago when there was less media intrusion.
One thing you can be sure of is that if he had been playing for Man Utd this year then they would not have thrown away an 8 point lead. Because the man was a leader on the pitch and in the dressing room. As we saw for Ireland. But instead of embracing that we reject it. Typical Irish... "who does he think he is"
Last edited by brine3; 17/06/2012 at 2:56 PM.
cringing
I agree and would argue it's all connected. I'm all for freedom of choice, but those Irish football supporters who invest time and money en masse in foreign league clubs and structures have the power to aid progress at home if only they'd realise this or were prepared to sacrifice the short-term gratification of supporting a Premier League/SPL club for concentrating their support domestically in the hope of it paying off in the long term. It's a terrible shame, but I can't tell people how to spend their cash.
There is no doubt that a strong domestic league is directly proportional to the development of a strong national team. I'd argue our national side's relative success, or punching above its weight, to date is somewhat of an anomaly in European football in the sense that there is very little connection between our domestic league and national team.
Croatia is a country of 4.5 million people with a league ranked 21st in Europe. The League of Ireland is ranked 33rd in comparison. Denmark - with a population of 5.5 million - has a well-supported league ranked 13th in Europe. There's no reason why we shouldn't be viewing these regular finals qualifiers as some form of inspiration. Have a look through the Croatian squad and - excepting Šimunić and Rakitić - note the origin of all their players. They must be doing something right domestically. It's a credit to the small pool available to them how well they do internationally on a regular basis.
It is peddled as a matter of pride that our national team regularly includes five or six players with their roots in League of Ireland football now - and rightly so - but that should be the norm rather than an exception to celebrate. We can't continue to rely on scraps from clubs in England and Scotland. That approach is failing even the English and Scottish national teams. British clubs don't have the best interests of Irish players at heart; why should they? It's not like they'll focus on Irish players for the sake of Irish football; they'll happily discard those players "lucky" enough to have been spotted in the first place when they deem them surplus to requirements. Focusing on and developing Irish talent should be the FAI's responsibility and the Irish public can help with that by backing the domestic structures that are in place. Of course, the domestic structures are imperfect and lack a sense of integration - there is no real pyramid - but that's something the FAI have to sort out. In the mean time, those who want the best for Irish football could reconsider where they're spending their money. Not that the FAI should abuse any forthcoming good will by failing to bring our infrastructure into line either. Of course, this is all pie-in-the-sky stuff as I don't actually envisage the wake-up call of our so utterly pedestrian performance at these championships being heeded by either the FAI or the "great Irish sporting public".
But it is it is precisely the definition of a fair weather supporter, for you to say otherwise is disingenuous.
The weather is the result and the support is the singing if you won't sing after a defeat you are the very epitome of a
fair weather supporter whether you realise it or not. (which you apparently don't)
Posting Permissions
Bookmarks