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Thread: RTE Panel

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    Capped Player DeLorean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by geysir View Post
    Brady was more acutely analytical and said Bale bottled it and gave an example, that Bale never once took on Evra and always chose the easy option, that Bale's confidence was poor. In the ongoing discussion, Brady's was intelligently analytical in his comments about Bale's performance.
    Although I agree with the first bit of your post, I don't think either Brady or Dunphy dismissed Sandier's more thorough approach to understanding the statistics, I felt Brady talking about Bale bottling it was nonsense. Brady was making it sound as if Evra was left isolated one-on-one with Bale, when clearly Juve took obvious measures to make sure this was never the case. It was just lazy analysis saying he bottled it by not running past the 34 year old. Bale cuts inside more often than not because he is pretty one footed and was deployed on the right. Arjen Robben generally does the same but is never accused of bottling it. Even when he's playing with confidence he does that a lot. In fairness to Bale, there is plenty that could be thrown at him for his performance but he certainly didn't hide, although that would have been a fair enough evaluation of his first leg performance.
    Last edited by DeLorean; 19/05/2015 at 3:56 PM.

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    Capped Player DeLorean's Avatar
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    Only loosely connected to this thread but a good article by Jim McGuinness in today's Irish Times.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim McGuinness
    The Irish Times, 26th May 2015

    Jim McGuinness: RTÉ need to draw line between opinion and disrespect

    ‘The Sunday Game’ is supposed to exude class but there are times it is just crass


    On Sunday evening, I came in the door from Celtic Park and went to check the GAA championship results. Celtic had been presented with the league trophy and had won the last game of the season 5-0 against Inverness. So in Glasgow – well, half of it anyhow – there was a mood of celebration.

    A night out for the team and management was planned so I was just at home to get ready for that.

    When I was looking up the results, I immediately saw reports about the comment Joe Brolly had made about Marty Morrissey on The Sunday Game. And it was on my mind all evening.

    Joe apologised for the remark he made about Marty live on the programme. It was offered in jest and the programme moved on. But I think the incident is like a window to a bigger issue which has been damaging to RTÉ and to its coverage of Gaelic football.

    The Sunday Game is considered to be the blue riband programme of RTÉ’s sports coverage. It is supposed to be something that exudes class. But in some instances it can look more like crass than class. Sunday was an example of this.

    During my time managing the Donegal team, we were on the receiving end of a lot of extreme criticism. Personally, it didn’t bother me. That doesn’t make it all right but during these times I am not sure how it affected my family or some of the players involved.

    It needs to be remembered these are amateur players. They are, by definition, unpaid. And the managers are unpaid volunteers. That has somehow become lost.

    Damaging connotations

    When a pundit says something, it can empower viewers to repeat it. For me, there is a culture of sensationalism informing some of the criticism, which can only lead to people getting hurt. It is nothing new. The reference to “the Taliban” when it came to Donegal football: that carries very clear and very damaging connotations. It is more than just a soundbite or a throwaway line. Where does that leave us? Why associate us with that?“The Black death of football.” “Puke football.” “Farcical tactics.” What are these all about? When did this start becoming part of what we do? And in what other sport does this happen? And it seeps down into the detailed analysis. For instance, the description of a wide as being a “horrible” wide is another example. Horrible is a horrible word. It is easy to choose another. A player doesn’t go out to kick a “horrible” wide. He is doing his best. And he is sitting at home watching and hearing this. It would be easy to feel about two inches tall.

    It is about pushing boundaries. For me, RTÉ should control the content but I feel in many respects they have sat on their hands and let the sensationalism evolve. I enjoy opinion and strong opinion at that. But there is a very important line between opinion and disrespect. People have a right to express their opinion but when their comments cross over into disrespect, it is an issue.

    And that has happened several times in the last few years. It happened with us in Donegal several times. It happened with Seán Cavanagh two summers ago. It happened with Paul Grimley, the Armagh manager. Armagh were criticised for being naive and too open in their tactical approach one year and castigated for being too defensive the next. Where is the voice for the players here? And managers can’t come out and take people on for every comment that is made about them.

    Many of these players are shaping their lives around football so they can play with their county. It is a big commitment and they deserve respect. I have travelled enough in my life to know there is a friendliness and humility about Irish people. At times those qualities are lacking in the coverage of the football championship. When I watch the hurling analysts, I see people engaging with one another with respect for the game and its participants, they give their opinions with a sense of fun and humility and offer a really good analysis of the game. I get a warm glow watching their exchanges.

    The peculiar thing about the GAA is that when you see a big championship game in Croke Park, it looks and feels to all the world like an elite sporting event comparable to the NFL or the English Premier League and it has all the trappings that go with that – including media coverage. But the only people making nothing from that event are the players and management yet they are subject to this intense scrutiny and, increasingly, to disrespect when the line becomes blurred.

    Base level of respect

    The strange thing about Sunday was that the line became blurred in relation to an RTÉ journalist, Marty Morrissey. He was disrespected. There is a line there that shouldn’t be crossed. It doesn’t matter if you are Scott Brown playing for Celtic or Wayne Rooney at Manchester United or a county player or a television journalist: you deserve a base level of respect.What I would like to see happening is a return to basic human values when it comes to analysing Gaelic football. I don’t recall it being this way when I started playing 20 years ago. You can’t disparage people who are out trying to do their very best in an unpaid capacity. You can have a strong opinion about them but you can’t disrespect them in the language that you use to talk about them.

    The culture of sensationalism may get ratings up but there is always going to be a human cost. And that human cost at the weekend was Marty Morrissey. But it will be someone else soon enough. Once something is said about an individual in any media, the impact of those words can affect that person for a long time. The broadcast ends and the debate moves on but the person at the centre of that debate can carry the criticisms with them and it can damage them.

    RTÉ has a great reputation when it comes to covering sport. RTÉ and Ireland lost one of its great broadcasters yesterday in Bill O’Herlihy, who always did it the right way. And on The Sunday Game live show, Michael Lyster always tries to moderate fairly.

    I have come to know some of the RTÉ journalists through my time with Donegal and hold them in very high regard. Marty Morrissey is one of those. He is a human being and as it happens, he is a great human being. But RTÉ have allowed this to happen with the coverage of Gaelic football by sitting on their hands and now it has affected one of their own staff members.

    Cultural identity

    And I absolutely believe The Sunday Game is hugely important not just for the GAA but for Irish cultural identity. And they need to know what it is to carry a blue riband television event.It is about setting an acceptable standard. If the view is that it is all about driving ratings, then fine. But it is morally wrong. I believe you can have high ratings and strong opinion without having outright disrespect. What happened with Marty Morrissey is a perfect opportunity for RTÉ to look in the mirror and to think about going in a different direction.

    And that’s my opinion.

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  4. #523
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    What did brolly say about Marty?

    I've a lot of respect for M Guinness and I hope he's right about the humility of Irish people. However what I tend to see these days is OTT respect for a sport code that goes up against a handful of other countries and a complete disregard for another because we're not world class at it, like it's some sort of shameful secret to be kept out of public view.

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    "Cavan football is as ugly as Marty Morrissey" (I believe).
    Forget about the performance or entertainment. It's only the result that matters.

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    Capped Player DeLorean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuttgart88 View Post
    What did brolly say about Marty?
    The Examiner

    The acerbic pundit was speaking on The Sunday Game ahead of yesterday’s match between Cavan and Monaghan in the Ulster SFC.

    He was discussing Cavan football in recent years and remarked: “Somebody said it's as ugly as Marty Morrissey, their football”.


    “Maybe I should apologise to the people of Cavan,” he added immediately.


    Brolly, or the production team, quickly realised the comment would not go down well and he backtracked at half-time.

    The apology wasn’t enough to stop some viewers complaining about the insulting comment, particularly given Brolly had devoted a column in a national newspaper yesterday to highlighting the dangers of abusing people on the pitch.


    “On the other thing, I just wanted to say obviously that what I said about Marty Morrissey earlier was said in the spirit of affection.” Brolly said. “It wasn't meant literally.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuttgart88 View Post
    I've a lot of respect for M Guinness and I hope he's right about the humility of Irish people. However what I tend to see these days is OTT respect for a sport code that goes up against a handful of other countries and a complete disregard for another because we're not world class at it, like it's some sort of shameful secret to be kept out of public view.
    That may be too one dimensional a metric to determine the humilty of the Irish people.

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    I'll be perfectly honest, you lost me at the mention of Joe Brolly. Over the last 12 months I've lost all respect for the man between his rant about Roy Keane on Newstalk last year and self serving articles on his belief that amateur sport (ie GAA) is better than all other forms of sport simply because he says so.
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    So let me get this right, up until 12 months ago you had some respect for him?

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    RTE don't always get the difference between allowing analysts the freedom to 'call it like it is' and allowing the analysts talk complete crap.

    On the McGuinness article, I agree with some of it, but don't see how or why the players' amateur status should be a shield from the kind of criticism he (I assume) thinks would be somehow legitimate if they were professional.
    Last edited by osarusan; 26/05/2015 at 3:07 PM.

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    I suppose, rightly or wrongly, it's seen as fair game to criticise somebody for the quality of their output if they're being paid. I can see some sense in this but that doesn't mean professionals deserve everything that's thrown at them either. In fairness, he did include professionals when he said that everybody deserves a basic level of respect.

    I found the 'horrible wide' bit interesting because it's something I've noticed over the past couple of years. Surprisingly enough, I think Darragh Maloney is the main culprit here. It always sounded a bit daft to me, just not normal GAA lingo, and there really are better ways of wording it. Ger Canning is guilty here too I think but he comes out with some high quality nonsense at the best of times.

    I saw a BBC preview of the Championship playoff final yesterday, with Phil Neville and Mark Lawrenson giving their "expert" opinion. At one stage Lawrenson mentioned that Bamford has scored a lot of goals this season, considering he's been used mainly from the bench! Jesus like this absolute spoofer is cleaning up, I'd say he's so busy going from place to place giving his expert opinion that he doesn't even have time to watch football!
    Last edited by DeLorean; 26/05/2015 at 3:43 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeLorean View Post
    So let me get this right, up until 12 months ago you had some respect for him?
    coming from someone who had played the game at the highest level, I was prepared to give him (and his analysis of the game) the benefit of the doubt, but over time it's been eroded to nothing.
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    McGuinness took a lot of stick from the Sunday game panel over his time as manager. He wasn't long getting his own back - think this is his second column.

    Also he is off to work with sky himself soon. The GAA is some Craic for fellas speaking out of either side of their mouths.

    His description of inter county managers as volunteers is better than Lance Armstrong contending he won 7 Tour de France clean - nonsense!

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  20. #533
    Capped Player DeLorean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid View Post
    Also he is off to work with sky himself soon. The GAA is some Craic for fellas speaking out of either side of their mouths.
    I don't see the contradiction?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeLorean View Post
    I don't see the contradiction?
    Criticising RTE for their coverage of the game, while covering the game for Sky
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    He's criticising the standard of the punditry, not punditry itself.
    Last edited by DeLorean; 26/05/2015 at 5:27 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid View Post

    His description of inter county managers as volunteers is better than Lance Armstrong contending he won 7 Tour de France clean - nonsense!
    Personally, I loved his little line on players as amateurs.

    "They are, by definition, unpaid"

    By 'definition' is a great way to put it. Anyone that still believes players and staff aren't getting money for being part of an inter-county GAA setup needs a kick up the hole.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954 View Post
    Personally, I loved his little line on players as amateurs.

    "They are, by definition, unpaid"

    By 'definition' is a great way to put it. Anyone that still believes players and staff aren't getting money for being part of an inter-county GAA setup needs a kick up the hole.
    What kind of money could a player get. I doubt if anyone can say.

    I suppose down the line players will officially get paid. It will be interesting to see how it will all evolve.

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    Quote Originally Posted by seanfhear View Post
    What kind of money could a player get. I doubt if anyone can say.

    I suppose down the line players will officially get paid. It will be interesting to see how it will all evolve.

    They get 'travel expenses'. I know for a fact though, they're getting paid quite healthy 'expenses', more than that of some LOI players weekly wage.

    Officially they get no wage, but quite a few GAA players take time off work to play, and some county boards cover their wage they miss from work and declare them as expenses.
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    RIP Bill

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    Quote Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954 View Post
    They get 'travel expenses'. I know for a fact though, they're getting paid quite healthy 'expenses', more than that of some LOI players weekly wage.
    'They' is a fairly loose term. I doubt very much the county boards of Leitrim, Carlow, etc. can afford to pay expenses of any description, let alone payments over and above what the players have coughed out themselves. I'd be surprised if your average GAA intercounty player isn't operating at a loss tbh.

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