Ireland v Spain - What does it mean to us??

[Dodge]

Not being funny but would you be of the same opinion if your job and reputation relied on it?

its nobody's job to be an international footballer. its a representative side.

Not that I agree with tokenism. No problem with 2g or 3g Irish playing. I've a big problem with mercenaries discovering they're irish when they're 23 and over though

None of which relates to the LOI BTW

[Charlie Darwin]

It's worth pointing out the work that is actually being done at underage level, spearheaded by Wim Koovermans.

Every side but the senior (Trapattoni) side is mandated to play variations of the 4-3-3 so that all of the players coming through the youth ranks will be familiar with it when the time does come to promote them to the national side. That way, if the likes of Robbie Brady, Jeff Hendrick, etc. are to break into the senior team in two years time, we will have players with years of experience playing in a more flexible formation. Presumably the manager that replaces Trapattoni in 2004 will adopt the same style as virtually 99% of managers in the world have. Whether it's as a result of better players coming through or a better tactical approach (probably both) we have experienced a very welcome upswing in fortunes at underage level over the past 2 years.

Things would be a lot better too if we had a national league that was well-supported by its own people, but we all know that will never happen.

[barney]

its nobody's job to be an international footballer. its a representative side.

Not that I agree with tokenism. No problem with 2g or 3g Irish playing. I've a big problem with mercenaries discovering they're irish when they're 23 and over though

None of which relates to the LOI BTW

Nope but it's Trap's (or someone's) job to be an international manager and him picking people because they're 'real' Irish or play in the LOI over someone better could have an effect on his employment status or his reputation. That was the point.

[Dublin Red]

VIA TWITTER:

Tommy Martin ‏@tommymartin77
Distance between these two teams has grown so much since 2002. Our FA is broke, so forget a review of coaching. But we have a nice stadium.

The problem starts at grass roots. Look at our younger players and how they are picked... the youngsters who are athletes, quick and strong... and who can kick the ball the farthest get picked. Think of how the likes of Richard Dunne, etc were picked when they were younger. This hasn't changed, yet football is changing, and we seen last night how far behind we have fallen.

In Spain, the most technically gifted players are chosen from a young age, and coached how to play the game the right way. Never mind how big they are, how quick and strong. Pace, strength and fitness are focused on at a more advanced stage.


Take an under 12 soccer game here in Ireland in a local league. Young Johnny is 11 years old and starts up front for his local team in Co. Sligo under 12 district league. He scores a goal and Johnny celebrates with his friends and manager, it's brilliant! Johnny has scored and his team wins the game... but... WTF has Johnny learned? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Yet Johnny will go back to training during the week with friends so he will try and win his next game the next weekend.
In Spain, they don't compete until the ages of under 16/17. Up until then they are coached and guided how to play football the right way (and "winning" is disregarded). If we ever want to compete at this level a complete review of the way we coach at underage is needed.... but we all know this isn't going to happen when the FAI are more interested in forking out a couple of Million on a big name manager.
The sooner the investment at grass roots is made, the sooner it'll be when we'll be able to compete with these top nations once again, simple.

__
Recently we have seen the FA in England make changes to the way the game is coached. At underage levels pitch sizes will be smaller all the way to under 17s. Copying the system the Spanish have had in place for the last number of years. This encourages more technical skills, and keeping the ball as a main priority (not just kicking it the farthest). Yet we have yet to introduce anything similar.

[Macy]

It's worth pointing out the work that is actually being done at underage level, spearheaded by Wim Koovermans.

Every side but the senior (Trapattoni) side is mandated to play variations of the 4-3-3 so that all of the players coming through the youth ranks will be familiar with it when the time does come to promote them to the national side. That way, if the likes of Robbie Brady, Jeff Hendrick, etc. are to break into the senior team in two years time, we will have players with years of experience playing in a more flexible formation. Presumably the manager that replaces Trapattoni in 2004 will adopt the same style as virtually 99% of managers in the world have. Whether it's as a result of better players coming through or a better tactical approach (probably both) we have experienced a very welcome upswing in fortunes at underage level over the past 2 years.

Things would be a lot better too if we had a national league that was well-supported by its own people, but we all know that will never happen.

That's great and all, but the problem is before they're even picked for representative sides. Dublin Red outlines the problem. But Delaney and co are never going to have the balls to take on the schoolboy leagues to make them do what is necessary for the long term development of the game.

[Dodge]

Nope but it's Trap's (or someone's) job to be an international manager and him picking people because they're 'real' Irish or play in the LOI over someone better could have an effect on his employment status or his reputation. That was the point.

Thats because his role is seen to manage the team, rather than help develop irish football. You can see here the problems are, can't you?

There's no connection at all between irish football. Schoolboys despise the league, FAI spend mor eon the national side than anythng else. Nobody looking to integrate the whole thing

[barney]

Thats because his role is seen to manage the team, rather than help develop irish football. You can see here the problems are, can't you?

There's no connection at all between irish football. Schoolboys despise the league, FAI spend mor eon the national side than anythng else. Nobody looking to integrate the whole thing

I agree but I was making the point that it's easy for someone to say that they'd prefer a LOI player to Aidan McGeady (for example) because the LOI player is 'really' Irish.

It's a nice romatic notion but I don't think anyone in their right mind would pick a LOI player over McGeady if they were the manager and their €1.5million a year and reputation was at risk.

[bluewhitearmy]

Ah begorrah, a bit of tokenism. This is exactly the mentality Keane rails against and, as much as I hate to admit it, he's right. We shouldn't be handing out caps to players just so the LOI is represented, we should be trying to ensure that the league gets to a standard where it is producing and fully developing international class players.

I don't want that but in saying that this magic that seems to be at English clubs that make players like McClean,Doyle,Long,Coleman etc good enough for squads when they would never in a million years be picked having the exact same ability playing for a LOI team is a bit strange no?.

[Dodge]

I agree but I was making the point that it's easy for someone to say that they'd prefer a LOI player to Aidan McGeady (for example) because the LOI player is 'really' Irish.

It's a nice romatic notion but I don't think anyone in their right mind would pick a LOI player over McGeady if they were the manager and their €1.5million a year and reputation was at risk.

No one on this thread did say that. One said there should be LOI reps, and another said he wouldn't pick mcGeady. Two seperate arguments

For the record Chris Forrester is already better than McGeady

[barney]

No one on this thread did say that. One said there should be LOI reps, and another said he wouldn't pick mcGeady. Two seperate arguments

For the record Chris Forrester is already better than McGeady

Really??

It may be a bit naive, but I honestly believe that there should be a position in a squad for a player who actually lives here over somebody that had a grandparent, and to hell with the fact he may not be p to International level.

[pauliek]

Shams fans are still racist

[bennocelt]

Well I would have Forrester def ahead of G Whelan

[passerrby]

In fairness to the fai they have been pushing this development for a number of years and it is been done at emerging talent and areas where they have influence it is falling down at club and league level where they have no influence .

[Kiki Balboa]

League of Ireland dose not do enough for bringing through players, as if they want to or are able too. We cannot develop a 14, 15, 16 year old into a senior player on are own without shipping them off to England as one poster suggested. Its easy to blame it on the so called fans that do not go to the games, but that is the situation that the league is in, we have to work around that. Before we blame the FAI we have to remember that no club is taking the responsibility either and our hardly making a fuss about the youth structures. For example I am involved with two youth clubs in the mid louth region, neither drogheda or dundalk have met with the clubs. What they should do is send a coach to the clubs and tell them what they are looking for in players, and how and when to coach it.

For me, the league of Ireland shouldn't be competitive ( as in the focus shouldn't be on winning trophies ). We can have a professional league but the facilities have to be the focus of where the money should be spent. There is no point in (for example) drogheda style of football, all clubs should have an extensive emphasis on attacking play, no matter what.

But there is no appetite for change. Lay people dont care, FAI look after themselevs, and the league of Ireland whiffs of big fish small pond. Next year there will be no change, and someone else will start a thread about the structures of the league, more clubs will go bust, there will be less interest in the league and John Delaney will still be earning more than the his league does.

[eekers]

Thats because his role is seen to manage the team, rather than help develop irish football. You can see here the problems are, can't you?

There's no connection at all between irish football. Schoolboys despise the league, FAI spend mor eon the national side than anythng else. Nobody looking to integrate the whole thing

This is bang on.

Also the FAI are paying a man 250k a year (more than the League winners get) to buy lads pints out in Poland. So instead of the money going into Irish Football, its going on a **** up for the lads and a nice bit of PR for the FAI.

[Sam_Heggy]

It's worth pointing out the work that is actually being done at underage level, spearheaded by Wim Koovermans.

Nope, not anymore, he's got a better offer elsewhere. I think it might be Stephen McNutt taking that role from now on.

[cestlavie]

Nope, not anymore, he's got a better offer elsewhere. I think it might be Stephen McNutt taking that role from now on.

God help Irish Football if this is the case.

Plenty of talent in Donegal and its not down to the FAI coaches employed like McNutt.

At least they got rid of Packie Bonner as he hadnt a billy ocean.

[dong]

I did hear that Koovermans was no longer in that job.

[Guinney]

I laugh when hear that "Irish fans are the best in the World". Don't get me wrong it's great the amount of Irish fans that travelled to the Euro's and singing of Fields of Athenry showed good spirit, but anyone can go to a big tournament, jump on the bandwagon, have the craic and sing a few songs, but it seems to me the majority of the "best fans in the world" can't support their local teams. Excuse will be made - no local team, Dublin league, poor standard, can't afford it, etc., some valid enough, most just from a lazy football fan. What these people don't realise if they bother getting off their couches/barstools and support Irish club teams week in week out, the standard and atmosphere would improve greatly.

The facts stand for themselves, we are the only nation with no players from the national league. John Delany wage is higher than what is giving out in prize money to the league, Trapattoni's wage dwarf's it. The FAI need to start developing and putting more money into all sections of the league, firstly to entice more people to go and secondly to develop our own players. For the most part we are relying in English clubs to develop our own players, it seems it's getting more difficult for young Irish players for break into the first team with the influx of foreign players. We need to encourage more players to stay in Ireland, develop their game here - e.g. Coleman, Fahey, McClean, Doyle, etc. But the FAI need to start helping the league out more to do this, help clubs develop their infrastructures, and get proper coaching structures in place.

At grassroots the system is a joke. Young players often are burnt out. Good footballers usually are involved in a number of teams - school, local club and probably a GAA team. It's all about winning and not the development of the player. And the result of this showed last night, the way Spain held possession and the number of passes they completed was outstanding. The Irish players just don't have the technical ability to play anything near that level.

[DannyInvincible]

Thought this was a good read...

'Inferior tactics, inferior technique, inferior attitude - Euro 2012 embarrassment must bring forth a new Ireland': http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/3284/...-attitude-euro

What is required now is a thorough post-mortem of, not only Euro 2012, but the slow disintegration of Irish football. We cannot be expected to hone a football identity while the collapse and neglect of clubs in the Airtricity League continues. Dundalk can barely submit a week-on-week budget and the list of defunct clubs stretches uncomfortably long in the recent past.

Ireland's fans have been praised for following their national team through the thick and thin of Euro 2012 but it is a conservative estimation that less than 5% of those present in Poland will be present at a League of Ireland ground next weekend when domestic action recommences. Instead, the Manchester United jerseys and the Liverpool colours will be back on and plans will be made for a trip to Old Trafford or Anfield.

Try explaining that to a Dinamo Zagreb fan or a Celta Vigo fan. I'm sure the reverence towards Ireland's fabled support would become dubious. The supporters were lauded for singing until the final whistle. Four-nil down and singing. Asking for more. Like the nation itself voting yes in the Fiscal Pact Referendum, asking for more punishment. Enough is enough. There should have been rebellion, distaste, disgust. People have spent money they simply don't have to go to Poland and watch that rubbish. It is an insult. But it won't change so long as the supporters are identified as the perfect football fan.

And while the shunning of domestic football continues, Ireland will lose its best talents, early, to England. Promising young players will have the football coached out of them, as has been the case for generations. The Irish national team was the only squad at Euro 2012 not to have a player supplied to it by its own domestic league. That must change.