Except that our players are good technically, otherwise most of them wouldn't be employed in the EPL. It's just other countries' players are even better.
They are not good technically, playing Trap's cautious formation. And Trap's formation calls for a player like Green to be played over and above McCarthy and Gibson.
The players are not performing to their own standards and a few good players are being forsaken. That's what you'd call an all round management failure.
At least with Greece, you can observe the players (most of them) have technical proficiency and use their skills well, within their game plan.
Except his (or any) formation has very little to do with their technical skills. And even Paul Green is light years ahead of any of us.
Do though take the point about us not matching up to the sum of our parts currently, but as much to do with a lack of creativity.
A canny operator would have assimilated the mad bald bloke and perpetual fat one back into the squad, with the appropriate kicks up the hole. As at least there would have been another 'Plan B'...
Geysir there appears to be a change of tune here somewhat, are you saying, Trap is not the man for the job, given his current performance, with the players at his disposal?Originally Posted by geysir
I'm a bloke,I'm an ocker
And I really love your knockers,I'm a labourer by day,
I **** up all me pay,Watching footy on TV,
Just feed me more VB,Just pour my beer,And get my smokes, And go away
I think that's where there's a misconception. Regardless of formation, technical skills are required to make it work and I pointed out Greece as an example. Somehow, whatever technical skills we have get suspended or reduced to the lowest common denominator. Trap's formation has also to do with using skills but there is a gap which has not been bridged. The gap between the players using their skills when required or opportune and Trap encouraging them to play it safe and crude. That gap was accentuated by the players succumbing to crude and safe and Trap's player selection criteria, eg preference for choosing Green over Gibson and McCarthy.
My tune has been consistent.
Just as the game is ultimately about putting the ball in the net, results are what justify decisions that Trap has made and I only seriously look at results over a whole campaign. I was reasonably confident that Trap would get us to the Finals, this he did and we deserved it. I was confident we would have way too much experience for Armenia and Estonia in the pressure games.
I did not suddenly become deluded. Not to mention all those who turned from critic to OTT positivity. I thought we would be doing well to get one point. I even thought that we could play well and get no points. IMO, Croatia would have beaten any of the losing 1/4 finalists, Spain and Italy could grace the final. It was a tough group. Getting ripped apart by Spain was not unexpected and that scoreline was exaggerated by a few mistakes. The game against Italy was also expected, the game against Croatia was cursed but everything we were about, allowed those events to transpire.
Overall we were poor against much better teams and we didn't perform. There is no escape from that. What blocked that ability to perform lies mainly with Trap. What got us to the Finals is no longer valid.
I'd mainly go to an Ireland game to support the team and watch the game, I don't care for anything else, apart from the locality and conversations with sober people to pass the time before and after the game. I have only attended a couple of games under Trap. The home game against Bulgaria was a torrid spectacle on the pitch. Personally I wouldn't go to all the hassle and expense that I have to go through and risk another experience like that, and the risk is pretty high.
I'll make an effort to go to the Faroes, but more out of respect for the Faroe Islands than going to witness catenaccio Irish style, part 3.
Last edited by geysir; 26/06/2012 at 10:27 AM.
'Mystic' Geysir is no more...
I see Sunderland has signed an agreement with an African NGO and Tullow Oil (an Irish company).
http://www.independent.ie/breaking-n...b-3150890.html
Obviously Tullow has shareholders to answer to and isn't a charitable organisation so would only do this if there's commercial logic to it in some sense.
However, given the mutual love-in between Ireland and Poland at the moment wouldn't some form of football co-operation- player exchanges, training etc. make sense with Euro 2012 as the catalyst?
Maybe Lech Poznan and Rovers' ultras can get together
I've emailed that guy at Tullow Oil before in a former guise as PRO for an organisation over here, i thought given our connections he might at least send me a PFO
They don't really seem to be very "Irish proud", sponsorship from a sports point of view anyway.
I'm a bloke,I'm an ocker
And I really love your knockers,I'm a labourer by day,
I **** up all me pay,Watching footy on TV,
Just feed me more VB,Just pour my beer,And get my smokes, And go away
Why? Sure Sunderland AFC is more Irish than the Irish themselves.
Looks like the shoite has finally started hitting the fan (no pun intended even if it is accurate).
And so it begins...
The press has turned on el Trap, will we see a repeat of McCarthys fate after 2002?
Poor results in Kazakhstan and when the Germans visit could see the axe fall.
I suspect Trap would survive poor results IF he takes a serious look at McCarthy, Gibson, McClean, Long etc in those games (or even a couple of them). Inflexibility is his most damning indictment at the moment.
Ou-est le Centre George Pompidou?
But is he really capable of adapting now. He quite clearly stated we have to play his way because we aren't good enough to play like real footballers. How will that have changed. He has also shown he is not one to be turned by public opinion. The same cannot be said for the FAI, if the press demand it, Delaney will pull the trigger.
Juast reverting back to our woeful opass completion rate: Guardian today says Spain completed more passes in the first half against France than Portugal completed in two whole games. That's Portugal, not us. It's not as if they can't use the ball a bit.
Lee Carsley with more interesting stuff to say
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...18804865.html#
ANALYSIS: THE GENERAL reaction to Ireland and then England’s demise at the European Championships has been fairly similar – neither nation was good enough by half, be it technically or individually.
I think this stance is wrong.
Let’s start by looking at Scott Parker and Steven Gerrard; the cramped up, exhausted England midfield pairing from the other night’s defeat to Italy. Put them against any three-man midfield in the tournament and they were always going to struggle.
Any two chasing possession against three men will expend way more energy. Just look at the drained look on Parker’s face as he was hauled off or Gerrard cramping up on 71 minutes.
Around the same time the first beads of sweat dripped off Andrea Pirlo’s forehead. Glenn Whelan and the frustrated Keith Andrews had similar problems during their Pirlo passing tutorial.
The Italian playmaker is 33 but this obvious weakness was never tested because Italy constantly had the option of an extra body against both Ireland and England. Pirlo barely moves but the two midfielders in front of him had Gerrard and Parker on their toes.
The English backroom really should have made their boys sit through the Italy v Irish game. It was there for all to see. Yet no lesson was learned. We’re back to the 4-4-2 debate again. This problem will not go away.
There was an English plan. It was for Danny Welbeck and Wayne Rooney to alternate dropping off and putting pressure on the Italian puppetmaster. It was important for either Welbeck or Rooney to tackle from the wrong side of Pirlo. You don’t want them goal-side of him as the Italians can react to that. It worked a few times with Pirlo losing the ball and Italy immediately looking fragile.
A striker, by his very nature, is a free spirit so to ask Welbeck or Rooney to do a man-marker’s job throughout was a tactical flaw. Eventually they stopped doing the job. Same thing happened with Ireland’s front two. There were countless moments when the English, and Irish, strikers were five yards off Pirlo, sucking in oxygen as the Juve number 21 picked out his umpteenth pass deep in opposition territory.
England, or Ireland, could even have played with Parker, or Whelan, in front of two midfielders, with a simple brief to stop Pirlo. Stand on him for 90 minutes, or until Cesare Prandelli was forced to change. Then you react and frustrate them some more. Get stuck into them but do it cleverly. It would have become 10 versus 10 and made a massive difference.
I actually felt Ireland had more of a go against Italy than England. The extra man in midfield means a player must be sacrificed elsewhere. Neither Giovanni Trapattoni nor Roy Hodgson were prepared to do this. The better teams in this tournament have embraced this approach, giving up the attacking option out wide by going through the middle in numbers.
The Premiership is the best league in the world. Looking at the individuals that made up the England starting XI, I cannot see how Italy’s XI could be considered technically superior. Man for man, I believe England were the better side. But they didn’t go man for man. There was no individual pressure put on. Hodgson is a 4-4-2 advocate, always has been. He decided this was the simplest approach to get the players to buy into his management in the time frame available.
Prandelli, in contrast, went about winning the tournament by alternating from 3-5-2 against Spain and Croatia, changing mid-game to a 4-3-3, which he stuck with, but an even narrower version, against us. It was a different system for every game to counter the opposition.
They were clearly practising for weeks in training, constantly changing systems and personnel with a steely focus on beating every team they face (although I think Germany will prove too strong for everyone).
It is simple arithmetic, movement, awareness and industry. Three against two in the middle will always mean the two men are chasing shadows. Also, when you do get the ball, your options are few, if any.
The problem is the English/ Irish mentality, and the public reaction at attempts to change. I’ve experienced crowds at Lansdowne Road and English grounds growing frustrated with the ball being passed about. They want it sent up to our big striker without any creativity until we are around opponents’ 18-yard box.
The Spanish, Portuguese, Italians and Germans all seek to control the ball, and patiently work it upfield. That’s why the Premier League is considered the most exciting league in the world. Because it is so fast and furious.
When England sent on Andy Carroll, and it went directly up to him, the Italians struggled. Suddenly there was a hint of midfielders not tracking their runners. The only problem was so much energy had already been spent.
Now, it is time to think about the next World Cup in Brazil, with its climate and humidity, as well as the established passing approach of the major nations.
England and Ireland cannot simply switch philosophy in the next few weeks, but their current systems must change.
I would love to hear about a new on-field strategy for Irish football going for forward. Most importantly, it has to be the same style of play from the bottom up. Our representative teenagers must play the same all the way through the ranks so promotion into the senior squad is seamless.
At Coventry City, where I coach, we have a coaching methodology that starts at under-10 right up to the first team squad. This is nothing new at the best clubs all over the world.
Will Trapattoni seek to do this? Does he care about what happens to Ireland at underage or even at senior in two years’ time? Will he start going to club games in England that have Irish players on view? We’ve loads of ex-Irish internationals out there coaching – Kenny Cunningham, Gary Breen, Curtis Fleming, Graham Kavanagh, Alan McLoughlin and, of course, Chris Hughton.
Why not get one or two of them around the national team? Our first job should be to ensure no team, no matter how technically gifted, should be allowed waltz through our midfield lines during the next qualification campaign.
Even the Germans, potentially arriving as European champions in October, must not be permitted to do what others have done to us and to England. We’ve suffered enough under the current manager’s stubbornness.
why should the press have so much power?
If the fans vote with their feet only then would it be reasonable for the FAI to act. If the hiring and firing of managers was led by the press we would have at least one change a year. when have they ever fully supported our manager?
No doubt trap needs to alter his ways to some extent but i dread the managerial dross we will have to pick from if he does go.
That's a nice read. Carsley understates the amount of ground Pirlo actually covers in a game. Pirlo covered more ground than Gerrard. Gerrard's exhaustion was not due to him covering more ground than Pirlo. That's besides the point anyway.
Lee repeats the good point that Sadlier made in an earlier piece about kids being taught to play one way but then they look at the national team who are playing like donkeys.
I have to say some of the talk on that show is very OTT. "Embarrassing". "Better not to be there at all". "We stank the tournament out".
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