QuoteD'ye ken Ken?
Ken is a good footballer and should be retained
D'ye ken Ken?
Hello, hello? What's going on? What's all this shouting, we'll have no trouble here!
- E Tattsyrup.
I'm not sure I like the way he drags Barbie along. Sure she brings some much needed glamour to the squad but is it too much of a distraction form serious football matters?Originally Posted by the bear
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Tallaght Stadium Regular
Roughly about 20mins for Villa at the end of the season. Does that mean he should be called up right away?
Give the kid a chance, he's 19. Let him get familiar with the U21's and get some proper 1st team action away from Villa first...
I'm at a loss as to how we can improve ourselves, every possibility has such glaring flaws that the only conclusion I can come to is that we're missing vital cogs to be anything but a defensive team who plays off set pieces.
We simply can't play 4-5-1, the modern 4-5-1 is a flexible 4-3-3 dynamically switching between depending on whether you have possession or not. The problem for us playing that is our wide players don't contribute enough goals to be faux forwards. We also don't have any central midfielders who can do this. Any 4-5-1 we could possibly create would be a team with only a single goal threat and so not very threatening. The concession is to drop a striker deep which trap has toyed around with but has we've seen that doesn't really work. So its a dilemma between not enough possession and not enough goal threat.
The problem is essentially that we're about a decade or two behind the rest of the world in terms of the type of player we're producing, same as England which is no coincidence considering the unfortunate circumstance that the majority of our players are developed there. We essentially need all of the below, none of which we have.
-> Ball playing centre backs.
-> Wing Backs
-> Attacking Midfielder
-> Deep Lying Playmaker
-> Wide players who can cut inside and pose a goal threat.
-> A Target Man
The game has move on and almost every successful team in the past 10 years has followed the template of GK - WB - CB - BPD - WB - DM - DLP - AM/B2B - AML/WF - AMR/WF - TM.
We have so few of those kind of players that its alarming and something thats beyond repair by any coach. The problems run deep, we need players in better leagues learning their trade from better academies. We have zero wingbacks, zero ball playing defenders, zero wing forwards and the only playmakers we've had try to emerge are playing in an uncreative league that stifles that kind of thing.
The type of players we do have, the line hugging winger, the full back, the fox in the box 10 or less specialised all rounder centre midfielder are defunct breeds of player in the modern game.
We should be looking at Belgium for an example going forward, at how they a small nation have managed to produce so many brilliant technical young players in a short space of time. You may not have seen them in a tournament yet but with the players they have they'll be there soon enough and they'll achieve big things, mark my words.
Then again, as we've seen with Swansea and Wigan this season, this type of formation is possible with more limited players.
GK - Westwood, Randolph, Murphy
RWB - Coleman, Foley, Kelly
CB - O'Shea, Pearce,
BPD - Wilson, Clark,
LWB - Cunningham, Ward, Tierney
DM - Meyler, Hendrick
DLP - McCarthy, Gibson
AM/B2B - Hoolahan, Fahey
AML/WF - Brady, McClean
AMR/WF - McGeady, (Walters),
TM - Long, Doyle, Walters,
This presuming that Given, Duff, Dunne and Keane retire.
The bones of a good team are there, without having to go too far out of players that Trap is already familiar with. I'd almost wonder about putting Wilson in the DM role, that way he could help out as part of a Back 5 when defending set pieces etc.
I would really like to see those selections and that formation tested although given that theres a lot of risks there (some players not playing that role for their clubs, players not playing for their club at all etc) it'd take a brave manager given free reign to try that out.
I've said for the guts of 18 months now, that I couldn't see Duff, Given, Dunne, Keane and O'Shea staying to Wc2014. I even refined that further - not that I wanted them to retire, but that I expected it.
Westwood for SHay is a no-brainer.
We need to have our defence setting an example. We need one of our two centre backs to be able to take the ball out from the back - it makes a massive difference. Ciaran Clark could be this man, but it is still very early for all of our potential centre halves. If Richard Dunne stays on, I would like to see him partnered by John O'Shea. I want my full backs to be full-backs, Kelly at right back, and take a chance on Cunningham at Left back for the moment.
How Gibson hasn't had a run out yet disturbs me. He's been getting game time at Everton, and it's a sham Green has played ahead of him. We need guile in midfield, and a bit of steel if we can. Basically fellas comfortable with the ball at their feet, while mobile at the same time. Unless we can come up with something a bit out of the ordinary formation wise then I'd go for the common three man midfield, but leaving one sitting and two roaming, in tandem with two wingers coming inside.
The trick, as I would see it, is that with two natural competent full-backs, they should offer an outlet on the flank, while the central players all are comfortable giving and receiving the ball.
Fluidity is important, and if we could get some of it, we'd a far trickier proposition.
I'm a McGeady fan and I'd have him as crucial to the team going forward. Long deserves his chance
With the players we have available to us now, I would like to see the following.
--------------------------Westwood-------------------------
Kelly------------O'Shea-----------------Dunne-----------Cunningham
---------------------------McCarthy---------------------------
-----------------Gibson-----------------Fahey---------------------
-----------McGeady------------------------McClean
----------------------------Long-----------------------------------
Subs: Randolph, Clark, Wilson, Andrews, Coleman, Doyle, Walters
That still leaves scope for the likes of Foley, Duffy, O'Dea*, Tierney, Hoolahan, Maguire, Robbie Brady, Mason, etc.
The future isn't as bleak as it seems, it just needs to be viewed differently.
* I really like O'Dea, when he has played for us he has done well, I cannot speak about Pearce.
Last edited by Kingdom; 16/06/2012 at 11:13 PM.
Here they come! It’s the charge of the “Thanks” Brigade!
The problem is the team is going to be Given/Westwood
O'Shea Dunne St Ledger Ward
McGeady Andrews Whelan Duff
Keane/Cox Doyle/Walters
With exactly the same tactics we have just seen fail. The reasons given for not playing a player like McClean at the Euro's will be given again. Who honestly believes Clark, McCarthy, Cunningham, Coleman, Hoolahan etc are going to start this year in the Qualifying games? Not going to happen.
considering your bringing cunnigham into the team, how can you have kelly ahead of coleman at RB.
personally i wouldn't have oshea in the team at all anymore. defo sledge ahead of him, if not duffy, clark, wilson, pearce etc.
i like the look of your front 6
Joey o' Brien could be in with a shout now that he seems to be a bit less injury prone, pretty versatile player, Sam obviously rates him anyway.. Between him and Wilson I think there is a lot of wiggle room to improve the defence and midfield before even mentioning the likes of McCarthy, Myler and Gibson and even McCann at CM. I'd love to see Wes get a chance but I can't see it happening hes a tad old too..
I hope Duffy at Everton can make a breakthrough because St. Ledger is grand but not the quality we need to compete at the highest level. Whats his face Clarke looks a decent prospect too as well as Cunningham. Theres plenty young lads knocking around who I think all have the potential to be far superior to the team we currently have. Would love to see Robbie Brady in a senior friendly too.
Shall be interesting to see if Pilkington can kick on from last season. I wouldn't mind seeing something like the below for the next 2 years but maybe I'm a bit mad...
Westwood
O' Brien - O' Shea - Dunne/Duffy/St. Ledger - Wilson
McClean - McCarthy - Gibson - McGeady
Long - Walters
All depends on if Duffy turns out to be any good thou, but I really don't think Dunne has the legs for another two years he was pretty woeful for Villa at times. I still have a lot of reservations about McClean too he looked totally lost (like everyone else) against Spain. He has time on his side thou, like most of the squad. Its time to start shedding the old guard, Given has been crap in the two games so far and Robbie non existent, and I like Duff but he hasn't got the speed he needs to be effective enough any more.
Last edited by Acornvilla; 17/06/2012 at 7:03 AM.
Jaysus lads,get it right - MCCLEAN NOT mclean.
Yeah i'm hard to please!!
Given/Westwood
Kelly Dunne O'Shea/Clark Wilson
Duff/McGeady Gibson McCarthy McClean
Walters Long
Always look on the bright side of life
no, 442 is dead as Glenn Whelan says this morning.
-------------------------Westwood---------------
------------------Kelly--Sledge--AN Other--Clark-------------
Coleman--any 3 of Whelan, Andrews, McCarthy or Gibson--McClean
--------------------------------Doyle------------------------
No wholesale change required despite the current furore.
I've said all along that any 3 of those 4 in midfield would work well together. Whelan hasn't impressed me lately and on another thread I suggested his time is up, but I fully sympathise with his view in today's papers that 442 leaves him and Andrews overrun and I think, especially given that he has more reason than anyone to be loyal to Trap so needn't have said it, he deserves consideration.
Coleman (if he returns to fitness & form) and McClean would add much needed pace.
McCarthy and Gibson use the ball well. I'd play both - leaving one spot for Andrews or Whelan, or a newbie like Wilson or Meyler.
Doyle (or Walters) is well suited to the no. 9 role the system requires, assuming he starts getting his sh1t together again.
Kelly and Clark are natural full backs, though I'm taking a bit of a leap of faith in Clark. Coleman and MacClean will offer protection.
AN Other at CB because I don't know which of Dunne and /or O'Shea will hang around, and Duffy and Pearce are about to step up soon.
Clark might not start this campaign at LB (Wilson might?), but he might well play himself into it.
There are no square pegs in round holes above, everyone is a natural to the role demanded of him.
I don't necessarily think a DLP is essential. What's more essential is that the midfield can both tackle and play the ball.
There, I'm feeling more optimistic now!
No mention yet of the forgotten man Joey O'Brien. Back to full fitness and with a season under his belt at West Ham. And now back in the Premier League as well.
And nobody has mentioned Leon Best(oh wait, somebody did)
James McCarthy is the future of our team. I reckon a midfield trio of him, Gibson and possibly Stephen Ireland? Trap keeps mentioning Stephen Ireland so maybe there are plans afoot to bring him in for the next campaign. New campaign, clean slate and all that.
Last edited by brine3; 18/06/2012 at 11:23 AM.
Acornvilla mentioned JO'B above. I had thought of him but he's not obviously better than Stephen Kelly for example.
Even though the starting XI may not need radical change (i.e., > 4 or 5 changes) I can see a thorough rejuvenation of the squad to introduce names like theose below - some immediately, some over the campaign when their club form warrants it
This would be over and above the names I selected above, where the likes of Long, Keane, Walters, Cox, McGeady and Foley perhaps would be the obvious first line of subs.
Joey O'B
Duffy
Pearce
Clark
Wilson (if he answers the texts)
Hendrick
Mason
Brady
Sean Murray
Hoolahan
Ireland
Pilkington
I think where O'Brien would nudge Kelly, is his distribution/passing, generally being comfortable on the ball, Kelly is weak there and the FB being able to play is so vital. That said I would still like to see stay JO'B fit this season again before reintegrating him.
ok i will start it off. depending on each game the formation can change. what about this for starters 4-1-3-2
--------------------Westwood---------------------
Coleman--------Dunne------O'Shea---------Kelly/Cunningham
----------------------Andrews------------------------------
McGeady--------------McCarthy------------------McClean
--------------------Keane----------------------------------
----------------------------Long---------------------------
Andrews protecting the back 4 with 3 attacking midfielders. Duffer looks like he will retire so hes not included. I have O'Shea in at center back as he is in the PL over St Ledger but its close. Cunningham could come in, i seen him with the u21's recently and he looks good. Keane always plays better with a good front man so hes up top with Long. Keane is far from finished yet IMO. Doyle or Walters wont score near enough goals. Lets see how this thread develops...
Last edited by Duggie; 20/06/2012 at 2:07 PM.
I'd have thought you'd switch McCarthy and Andrews since those are the roles they play for their clubs.
Id agree with that team pretty much except swap Andrews and Mccarthy as noted and Kelly at right back. Mcgeady isnt the most natural right winger but seeing him in UEFA for Spartak playing him there seems to bring him in to the game more , which is what we nee,d as he cuts in to the centre of the pitch more.
The forward partnership is a tricky one...Keane probably will continue but theres noone scoring prolifically in England to really be a shoe in to partner him. Maybe if Long stays fit at least he can improve on last season's showing, otherwise I'd probably stick with Doyle for now or maybe Leon Best, again fitness permitting. Doyle's a better compliment to Keane than Long is I'd say.
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