I've admiration for that as well. We need to rediscover how we played v Italy in Croke Park and the response in Paris to a first-leg defeat in Croke Park where we were equally poor.Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid
Nothing much to add that has not been said - except that I thought the header for the first Mandzukic goal was a really superb header. Yes it was a poor goal to concede from our point of view - but if one of our lads headed a ball of that quality from about 15 yeards out, into the bottom corner, while stumbling, we would be singing his praises to the rafters!
I agree with people who say that this was coming a bit - as we have been coughing up lots of chances lately - It may not have been much harm getting a tanking in one of the friendles, - defeat always focuses the mind, - not sure if it would have made much difference. But we certainly had a false confidence going into the game, which was cruelly exposed.
I must say I admire the likes of mypost and tricky who seem to have unfailing confidence in Trapatoni and his tactics, when the reality surely points to two more defeats in the remaining games. Would love, I mean LOVE to eat my words - but I can't see us getting a point in either game from here.
I was at the Italy game in Liege last summer, and I was impressed by the way we defended against them that night - but that was only an end of season kick around, hardly relevant to what will happen Monday night. If we cough up 80% possession to Spain as is likely Thursday then its going to take some sort of minor miracle to get a result.
I've admiration for that as well. We need to rediscover how we played v Italy in Croke Park and the response in Paris to a first-leg defeat in Croke Park where we were equally poor.
Bitterly disappointing performance. Sadly, we were 2nd best all over the pitch and the Croats deserved the win.
Mandzukic and Jelavic terrorised our defence. Our back 4 looked nervy and vulnerable and the Croats sensed it.
I'm still a little unsure as to how good or bad the Croats defence is as we barely tested them for huge periods of the game.
Certainly, there were elements of bad luck but the manner in how we approached the game tactically and its execution, leaves your team at the mercy of such tough breaks.
Is anyone seriously surprised that our midfield was 2nd best??? Andrews played quite well but Whelan had a poor game. I'd suggest Gibson could start against Spain. The big question is if Whelan and Andrews will remain also.
We can't march, lemming like, towards the Spanish game without attempting to resolve some of the glaring problems that were exposed yet again last night.
Unfortunatly, the time, place and personnel to resolve many of these issues should have happened gradually over the last 2 years.
In trying to find some optimism, we've been forced to manage of expectations now. Noone gives us a hope of qualifying now. This may alleviate some pressure on the team and may free them up to produce a better performance against Spain.
We're down, we're bloodied but we can't just give up.
Come on Ireland - give it a f**king lash!!!!!!!!!!!!
Last edited by Wolfie; 11/06/2012 at 12:56 PM.
Quoting years at random since 1975
Watched chunks of the game again today with more sober eyes. It struck me how nervous or edgy our players were right from the off. Perhaps they were overawed a little with the occasion and atmosphere.
Our back 4 were bullied by the physical intensity and shirked an appropriate reciprocation until after the serious damage had been done.
A player like Jelavic has to be respected because of his quality but that doesn't mean I wouldn't elbow him or stab the knee into his back with every challenge and without the slightest pang of conscience. Croatia treated that game with the physical intensity of a derby.
There where times last night when it was crying out for one of our midfielders to come onto the ball and have a crack at goal from outside the box. Gibson has never been lacking in that regard.
Bring Back Belfast Celtic F.C.
Croatia weren't afraid to go direct themselves at times.
Cannot believe we didn't put a few crunching tackles early on. Let em know we'd be in their faces. Whelan calls himself the dog of the team but played like one of those toy dogs celebrities have!!
"If God had meant football to be played in the air, he'd have put grass in the sky." Brian Clough.
You'll NEVER beat the Irish.......you'll just draw with us instead!!!
absolutely ruined my enjoyment of the game. I thought our goal and Croatias second had been whistled dead. ****ed me off.
Just a hard display to dissect in any real way. I'm just going to conclude that the team didn't turn up. Our defense, with the exception of Ward to an extent, was diabolical. Got themselves into bother when trying to pass between themselves and the alternative hoof to the front two was all too easy for Hrvatska to gobble up.
Felt Andrews was our motm. Whelan moved and passed like an 80 year old cripple. Duff & McGeady were fine but had no chance against a tactic that Bilic played which probably came from A Dummies Guide To Football Management i.e. double up on the wingers when they get the ball. They never stood a chance.
Keane & Doyle were anonymous. That's about all I can say about those two. Where was Keane's leadership?
Trappatoni got found out by the rest of Europe last night. His substitutions were bizarre. If I had made the calls, Gibson for Whelan; Walters for Doyle and McClean for Duff.
Very disappointing. No passion, no desire, were they tired? No one can be proud of that display, least of all Trap.
I like high energy football. A little bit rock and roll. Many finishes instead of waiting for the perfect one.
I think that's pretty much the telling factor we have to overcome. Our last tournament was the WC in 2002. Croatia were also there, but in the intervening years under Stan, Kerr and the final years of McCarthy we failed to get to Euro 2004, the World Cup in 2006, Euro 2008 and the last World Cup. Croatia made it to all of those except the last world Cup. Going back before that they missed Euro 2000 but got to France 98 and Euro 96 (we didnt get to any of those three). When it comes to tournament football we only really have Given, Keane and Duff who've been in a tournament, and that was 10 years ago. Dunne went as well, but didn't play.
Spot on. We're too afraid of a shot. Spain and Italy will be at it all day.
https://kesslereffect.bandcamp.com/album/kepler - New music. It's not that bad.
We were clearly very nervous but it didn't seem to pass which is strange. The idea is that you play your way out of the nervousness. It didn't happen.
I like high energy football. A little bit rock and roll. Many finishes instead of waiting for the perfect one.
What he said.
We all know we don't have a midfield to compete at this level. We also know we cannot retain possession like most half decent sides. Most of us know we cough up chances against most sides and it appears we usually cannot beat the top sides at all, when it really matters.
But the one thing I would have expected of us is to match the intensity of the oppositon and to not get bullied physically.
IMO Croatia won last night not becaude of systems or tactics, not because of refs decisions, or just bad Irish luck, and not because of Modric. They won because they wanted it more, were prepared to work harder than us and were happy to pressure us far up the pitch.
Yes they had technically more gifted players but, by God, did they work hard. Every time we got the ball to the full backs or even if our centre backs attempted to bring the ball out, their attackers and wingers pushed up and really put pressure on the Irish player with the ball. They knew we would just hoof it or mis place a pass as we dont have the quality in our players and when put under pressure that becomes much more aparent. They knew if they put pressure on us in our own half we would cough up possession and they could just start again.
Not being able to physically compete (their big centre forward bullied our centre backs all night) and seemingly not being able to at least kick people, work hard and match their intensity was, for me, the most disspaointing thing about us last night.
You dont need top quality to do that. I mean McGeady left Ward's arse hanging out every single time. If he isnt prepared to work in a tourny then he's no good to us. Keane was not involved. Doyle at least put it about, ran the channels, dragged Corluka across the line and won freekicks, which is his game after all. Surpriosed he came off when he did (I would have called Keane ashore). Andrews tried hard but the rest just didnt front up and thats unacceptable.
Roll on Spain.
I think Trap was making that point to be fair when he was talking about personality. Regards the midfield though, at this level maybe it should be filled with another midfielder when we clearly can't compete?
Let's be honest here for over 3 yrs now we've asked about what's the alternative game plan, there just is none. Carbon copy players called up I mean what does Paul green offer? I fully accept traps idea that we are going to be a side that's set up to be difficult to beat but the criminal thing is we don't even pick the best players for this system. McCarthy should have been more involved throughout wether he had travelled or not, I fail to see what whelan or Andrews can to that McCarthy can't, however McCarthy can do a lot that the current pairing can't such as retain possession and pass. Trap talks about being prepared yet we look so disorganised and devoid of ideas last night you have to wonder was anything else worked on in the last 4 yrs other than the system. Cox on the left, anyone else see that coming? Bizarre stubborn man.
If Trap cannot see that we need a bit of creativity in midfield after that performance then all is lost. The very minimum is that Gibson must come in and McGeady makeway and change to 433 or 451.
I presume the thinking behind Cox at LM was that he perform some function there but get into the box for the scoring opportunities. It was a misplaced act of positivity from Trap that didn't pay off and looks more stupid in hindsight. The chances of it paying off were anyway slim. A more solid impetus would have come from McClean who probably isn't smart enough to suffer from a thing like nerves
This is known as playing in the 'false Keogh' role.
Hodgson has had England for 6 weeks & I was impressed with how they stuck to their shape.
It's boring, the type of football I hate but that kind of organisation would have got us a point last night.
Jaysus Stephen Ward is bad. Come back Ian Harte all is forgiven.
Last edited by youngirish; 11/06/2012 at 8:51 PM.
Agreed. Was thinking the level of organisation and two banks of four they displayed today was very similar to how we have defended under Trap in the past. Unfortunately that all went awry last night. Lets hope it returns on Thursday.
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