We have a 'trophy room' ??
"Let's not just go along for the sing-song" Still don't see what's so controversial about what Roy said. But I think the media loves to create controversy with whatever Roy Keane says. Open up the old wounds, get all the Saipan bull**** flowing again. Yes, shame on Roy, being annoyed when Ireland gets thumped 4-0.
What's the title of the award? Will the trophy be paid for by Polish brewers as a thank you? Greatest Alcohol Intake at Euro2012 award?
Correct me if I am wrong but isnt that the same thing?Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
True enough, but you would imagine that the best fans in the world would just go along and watch their local teams. i mean how do they need to be encouraged as its live football. Maybe pom pom dancers at half time?
Anyway always interesting to see what others make of it all - overall positive comments which is good
http://www.rt.com/sport/football/iri...euro-2012-118/
That may be, but the context of what you wrote was in reply to Stutts.
You asked
"Would their perception of the ROI fans change if they knew that a serious majority of those in Poland don't go to LOI games?"
You have answered that question yourself "I have no problem describing anybody as a supporter in that situation."
It's not complicated why the fans were nominated for recognition. The award was for behaviour at the tournament, it starts and finishes at the tournament. Do you seriously think it matters to perceptions as to what particular way they do support football in their homeland? that e.g. it matters if they just play football with some club and not support a semi/pro league team?
Also, assumptions are made by some about other international team supporters, that they are great supporters of their home league. Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. I don't know if all those Swedes and Danes who attended the tournament are also great fans of their home league. They may be involved at some of the many levels of the sport just like some Ireland fans. Some may come for the carnival, like some Ireland fans. There are a myriad of reasons why the LOI is one of the most poorly attended leagues in Europe and in stark comparison to the steady rise in what were once comparable leagues in Denmark/Norway.
People who don't think it's worth paying to see so don't go - I have no gripe with them, it's their choice. That includes most people I know.
People who just ridicule it annoy me. More often than not they give no consideration to the uphill battle that staging a professional league in Ireland involves, or offer nothing constructive. That includes some people I know, and some journalists.
My post that you've quoted was in response to you asking me if I considered people who don't attend LOI games to be supporters of the national team. I said that I do. It doesn't answer the question I asked regarding the perception of fans of other countries may have of ROI fans.
You missed the part of my post where I said 'regardless of any award'? I'm not talking about the award, I'm talking about the perception of our fans in the eyes of others, for whom most likely this is their only exposure to Irish football supporters, and the extent to which they might assume that the same passionate support filters down to lower levels of football, specifically the LOI. Would a look at the attendance numbers for domestic matches matter to them? I don't know, so I asked the question. My own guess is their admiration for the ROI fans might be tempered somewhat, but of course others might have a different opinion.
Last edited by osarusan; 01/07/2012 at 1:06 PM.
Except that fans of Ireland's national team can't be compared with those of the LOI like with other countries, by foreign fans, as they represent two very different levels of the game...
Also more tenuous material on the Irish team here?
http://www.wsc.co.uk/forum-index/35-...ap-revisionism
Featuring at least one poster from this MB.
Last edited by ArdeeBhoy; 02/07/2012 at 9:21 AM.
Fair point, but only the naive are saying that Irish football fans are the best in the world. I think. At least, I'm confident most people here know better. What's the consensus around the web? Are Irish people basking in such misplaced praise?
Should there be an expectation or responsibility upon the Irish public and Irish sports fans to invest time and money in the League of Ireland? Perhaps there should be if Irish football fans are to live up to the delusion that they are in fact the best fans in the world, but, otherwise, I don't think we can necessarily expect people to follow the league out of some form of national duty. People live different lives and do things in different ways; whilst there may be more beneficial ways, there is no one correct way to support football in a certain country, nor is there a single supporting orthodoxy within that support.
Hehe.
That might well be the case, but the mildly antipathetic mindset exists amongst supporters of the league regardless. Perhaps it's not as widespread as I believe it to be and possibly it's rooted in the frustration you mention, but I also think it's an easy and self-satisfying method by which certain supporters can create a psychological hierarchy of supporters in order to position their supposed superiority and greater worth to their club at the top of that hierarchy.Anybody who would decide based on the 'hostile' posts of the fans on an online forum that they didn't want to go to an LOI game is being incredibly over-sensitive.
Also consider when clubs get big turn-outs at finals; supporters of other uninvolved clubs will often mock and patronise the "fair-weather" support of the involved clubs. Are they saying the big turn-out is a bad thing? The ridicule need not just come from those who support the clubs affected; we're looking at this from the perspective of trying to attract more of the Irish public towards supporting the league in general.
Danny,
The same point about 'fair weather' fans applies the world over. And not just in soccer...
Only the naive or those who have the hump that RoI fans got such great accolades at the Euros I think.
The RoI was the best supported team at the Euros. That's all the award is, no more and no less and my strong guess is that most people haven't given a second thought about how domestic football is supported.
Osarusan, if the RoI fans gave anyone the idea that Irish fans are passionate about their local clubs and support them in large numbers it'd be the wrong perception. The more knowledgable people will know that we're a small country that can barely support a professional league so will know that the LoI doesn't attract big numbers. But I reckon all anyone thought was that the RoI fans were great during their short visit to Poland and didn't spare a moment to wonder about any other tier of our game.
I also think most people know that international support and domestic support are very different. I think Dutch fans are well behaved and very colourful at major tournaments but I also know that down the years domestic support has been very factional and very often violent, the antithesis of their national team's support.
Also, just to clarify. I have absolutely nothing against the LoI - I supported it for years as many of you know. My beef is with people who think there is only one way or a superior way of expressing one's interest in football. Anyone expressing that view here is almost always a LOI fan. Personally, I thionk football is a broad church and I have my favourite parts of it. My least favourite part of it is the bloated obscene version of the game that the EPL has become, the footballing equivalent of a neo-con conspiracy to make the rich richer and letting the poor borrow too much if they want to stay in touch. The EPL is a metaphor for the light-touch, neo-liberal trickledown economic philisophy that ultiamtely caused havoc in the US and UK.
Last edited by Stuttgart88; 01/07/2012 at 5:06 PM.
I think this is where the distinction between a fan and a supporter comes in handy - fandom is passive, watching your tv and hoping whatever team wins; supporting is active, going out and putting your time and money where your mouth is to actually improve the lot of your team. Going to LOI games and cheering the team on has a small but tangible effect on Irish football - buying a Sky Sports subscription unfortunately doesn't. Even going to support clubs with a "proud" Irish tradition like Liverpool or Man United doesn't support Irish football as much as it supports Ryanair and the pubs of north-west England.
I'd say the EPL is less a neoliberal model than Spain or Italy. Compared to those leagues it's a model of wealth distribution.
Actually I hate the Spanish model too, it's just that the EPL is closer to home I suppose. Spain's debts - including huge amounts to the Revenue - individual TV rights, municipal bail-outs etc. are obscene and I'm told that UEFA is more concerned about Spain's model than England's.
To refer to any part of Italian football as a "model" would be paying it a compliment!
Last edited by Stuttgart88; 01/07/2012 at 6:19 PM.
Stutts has nailed it yet again with #272. Good stuff.
Letter in today's Times. Did anyone here write it?
Sir, – According to figures in The Irish Times on Saturday, the overall attendance at five Airtricity League of Ireland games on Friday night last amounted to a meagre 7,754.The majority of the “wonderful” Irish supporters who caused so much merriment when celebrating the defeats at Euro 2012 obviously have not recovered from their exertions and long travelling to go out and support local soccer.But, no doubt, these dedicated fans will soon turn out in big numbers, as they did thousands of miles away, to boost crowds at League of Ireland matches. – Yours, etc,
There's a lot more to supporting a team than putting money in it. Supporting a team, is part of your life and your identity, and it extends way beyond 90 minutes at the weekend, whether it be at the stadium or on a screen.
NL 1st Division Champions 2006
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I said time too, Mr. Post.
This is exactly what I was talking about elsewhere, how many people who went to Poland, or watched the games on TV, and thought about going to a League of Ireland game saw that and thought "well if that's going to be the opinion of LoI fans, I'm not going to bother".
Posting on a message board is one thing, a letter in a national newspaper is a whole other level
To be fair that would be a petty excuse
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