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Thread: Polkraine;Racism?

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    Polkraine;Racism?


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    Seasoned Pro jbyrne's Avatar
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    sure the english are never happy with who gets awarded these tournaments. always some gripe or another.
    their fans ran riot in the early 90s yet got awarded euro 96. people in glass houses and all that

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    I heard oxlade-chamberlains family and walcott wont go because of a fear of racism. They could just move John Terry to a different hotel.
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    Good line Paul, if wholly unoriginal.

    However the racism/fascism in Ukraine/Polska and Eastern Germany can't be ignored and makes our friends from across the channel currently look small beer by comparison.
    Sol Campbell has hopefully overstated it but we should all pray it won't be a problem either...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z93iQ...ature=youtu.be
    Last edited by ArdeeBhoy; 29/05/2012 at 10:55 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy View Post
    Good line Paul, if wholly unoriginal.

    However the racism/fascism in Ukraine/Polska and Eastern Germany can't be ignored and makes our friends from across the channel currently look small beer by comparison.
    Sol Campbell has hopefully overstated it but we should all pray it won't be a problem either...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z93iQ...ature=youtu.be
    If you're referring to England, then surely no country has done more than them to stamp out racism from football. There is no major fascist party in Britain, the BNP have been all but wiped out at local level and will hopefully lose their two European seats (won because of a fall in turnout). England is also one of the most cosmopolitan and multicultural countries in the world, so any comparison with the likes of Poland and Ukraine, where white power and nazi signs are commonplace and mass ranks of fans perform Hitler salutes seems like petty Anglophobia to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by boovidge View Post
    so any comparison with the likes of Poland and Ukraine, where white power and nazi signs are commonplace and mass ranks of fans perform Hitler salutes seems like petty Anglophobia to me.
    I've been to Poland and Ukraine. White Power and Nzi signs are absolutely NOT commonplace. A Polish TV crowd could easily show footage of last year's London riots and find plenty of BNP graffiti in bradford etc and paint the UK in a horrible light.

    I'm not saying there isn't a problem, and I'm clearly not saying the UK is worse (or even close to...) , I'm just saying the documentary last night was shockingly tabloid.
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    Quote Originally Posted by boovidge View Post
    If you're referring to England, then surely no country has done more than them to stamp out racism from football. There is no major fascist party in Britain, the BNP have been all but wiped out at local level and will hopefully lose their two European seats (won because of a fall in turnout). England is also one of the most cosmopolitan and multicultural countries in the world, so any comparison with the likes of Poland and Ukraine, where white power and nazi signs are commonplace and mass ranks of fans perform Hitler salutes seems like petty Anglophobia to me.
    Agreed mainly, but the likes of EDL & Britain First, plus Casuals United all have very unsavoury characters within their ranks. Unsure if murderers exactly, but holocaust deniers and the the like.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dodge View Post
    I've been to Poland and Ukraine. White Power and Nzi signs are absolutely NOT commonplace. A Polish TV crowd could easily show footage of last year's London riots and find plenty of BNP graffiti in bradford etc and paint the UK in a horrible light.

    I'm not saying there isn't a problem, and I'm clearly not saying the UK is worse (or even close to...) , I'm just saying the documentary last night was shockingly tabloid.
    Agreed the documentary was a bit sensationalist but have also been to Poland and one of the first people we encountered socially was a local clown wearing a 'KKK' sweatshirt.

    Unsure how widespread a problem this is but unless you're non-white, how would you ever know...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dodge View Post
    I've been to Poland and Ukraine. White Power and Nzi signs are absolutely NOT commonplace. A Polish TV crowd could easily show footage of last year's London riots and find plenty of BNP graffiti in bradford etc and paint the UK in a horrible light.

    I'm not saying there isn't a problem, and I'm clearly not saying the UK is worse (or even close to...) , I'm just saying the documentary last night was shockingly tabloid.
    Definitely agree that it was sensationalist, but you cant fake what happened to those Asian kids or the thousands performing Nazi salutes at the grounds. I'm sure someone could make a documentary that paints the UK as a racist hellhole, but specifically when it comes to football, I don't think you could travel round a number of top level football grounds and be able to film some of the disgusting stuff the BBC was able to in Ukraine.

    I've been to Poland too but only to fairly tourist friendly areas in Krakow so unfortunately I can't say what it's like in the real Poland. Absolutely loved what I saw though.

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    It was definitely sensationalist, but as you say, that was two of the bigger clubs in Ukraine and no one went to stop it not even the stewards. You wouldn't see the same in a top level club in England, you might see it on the streets of bradford or east london or wherever but not in the football grounds.
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    Quote Originally Posted by boovidge View Post
    the thousands performing Nazi salutes at the grounds
    Wasn't saying it was faked, was saying its not common place. We played Lviv last year. No sign of it. heavy, heavy police presence around us but most fans more interested in swapping scarfs etc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by boovidge View Post
    If you're referring to England, then surely no country has done more than them to stamp out racism from football. There is no major fascist party in Britain, the BNP have been all but wiped out at local level and will hopefully lose their two European seats (won because of a fall in turnout). England is also one of the most cosmopolitan and multicultural countries in the world, so any comparison with the likes of Poland and Ukraine, where white power and nazi signs are commonplace and mass ranks of fans perform Hitler salutes seems like petty Anglophobia to me.
    The rise of the EDL and others (English democrats) is a bit alarming though all the same???? Not that long ago nail bombs were going off in Soho

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    Depends what you mean by "rise" though doesn't it? The EDL are worrying but are really a fringe anti-islamic group and their "members" spend most of its time drinking lager and singing football chants. Their marches are usually outnumbered by police and left wing students. The English Democrats are an incredibly minor party that wants above all else, a seperate English Parliament. Hardly the anti-democratic stuff of your average fascist. No doubt there's some unsavoury former BNP characters lurking around, but they position themselves as a standard right wing populist party. And they also have no support. Compare that to the recent French elections where a far right candidate won nearly a fifth of the popular vote. Far right politics in Britain is in a very bad way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jbyrne
    sure the english are never happy with who gets awarded these tournaments. always some gripe or another.
    their fans ran riot in the early 90s yet got awarded euro 96. people in glass houses and all that
    Wonder will the BBC run a show on how racist the French are in 4 years time, showing years old footage of race riots as evidence? Will they feature footage of Marseille-PSG crowds and how they beat ten lumps out of each other twice a year?

    But that's only France isn't it?
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    But do the French use football as a vehicle for right-wing politics, beyond some of PSG's more notorious fans?

    The Poles and Ukrainians seem to, as do the national fans of Serbia and Croatia. Not to mention club football right across countries from all the former Soviet 'Bloc' as well as certain notorious clubs from England & Scotland eastwards...

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    Quote Originally Posted by boovidge View Post
    Depends what you mean by "rise" though doesn't it? The EDL are worrying but are really a fringe anti-islamic group and their "members" spend most of its time drinking lager and singing football chants. Their marches are usually outnumbered by police and left wing students. The English Democrats are an incredibly minor party that wants above all else, a seperate English Parliament. Hardly the anti-democratic stuff of your average fascist. No doubt there's some unsavoury former BNP characters lurking around, but they position themselves as a standard right wing populist party. And they also have no support. Compare that to the recent French elections where a far right candidate won nearly a fifth of the popular vote. Far right politics in Britain is in a very bad way.
    Yeah yeah anyway EDL thugs on the streets of London - irish people are ok then???? You dont live in the same Englad then li live in.... ("**** off back to ireland") yeah the english are sweet hearts

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    Quote Originally Posted by bennocelt View Post
    Yeah yeah anyway EDL thugs on the streets of London - irish people are ok then???? You dont live in the same Englad then li live in.... ("**** off back to ireland") yeah the english are sweet hearts
    Look, my original point was that i felt it was unfair on English football and society for it to be used as some sort of yardstick for worldwide levels of racism. ie "they're EVEN MORE racist than the English!". I think it's pretty hard to deny that the English game has made great strides in terms of hooliganism and racism in the last twenty years or so and also it's true that England is one of the most cosmopolitan places in the world. I wasn't trying to deny that there are problems in England. There is scum everywhere in the world. But the two groups you mentioned sort of prove my point. One isn't even a far right party by strict definition and the other is a loose association of pathetic lager louts (led by a 2nd gen Irish fella!). Who do you think gets a harder time in 2012, an Irish guy in London or a black African in Kiev?

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    Some Ukranians told me this joke:
    Chinese fella is having trouble reading so he goes to the eye doctor. Eye doctor looks him over and does some tests. Calls Chinese Fella the next day and says I found out whats wrong with you...you have a cataract. Chinese fella says no I don't, I have a Rincoln Contirental.
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    Quote Originally Posted by boovidge View Post
    Look, my original point was that i felt it was unfair on English football and society for it to be used as some sort of yardstick for worldwide levels of racism. ie "they're EVEN MORE racist than the English!". I think it's pretty hard to deny that the English game has made great strides in terms of hooliganism and racism in the last twenty years or so and also it's true that England is one of the most cosmopolitan places in the world. I wasn't trying to deny that there are problems in England. There is scum everywhere in the world. But the two groups you mentioned sort of prove my point. One isn't even a far right party by strict definition and the other is a loose association of pathetic lager louts (led by a 2nd gen Irish fella!). Who do you think gets a harder time in 2012, an Irish guy in London or a black African in Kiev?
    sorry drunken rant at 1.30 is never good, apologies

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