Shay Given

**TheOneWhoKnocks** · 08/03/2015, 10:58 PM

You know what I meant Charlie.

And Walters got stuck in and harried against Germany (a) but I think starting Long would send more of a positive message about what we are aspiring to against Poland - and what we should be aspiring to in a home game - since he has greater nous, link up play, pace and is more of a handful for defenders.

I would rather take a chance on Long starting for his pace and ability to create chances for himself on the counter attack than I would Walters, where chances - and you don't get many at this level - are spurned because of his touch and lack of pace. Long's heading ability is also invaluable in this team because, frankly, there is nobody in the team who comes close in heading ability. I know there is also a question about temperament when it comes to Long but there have been several notable flashpoints with Walters' temperament at club level ie. Norwich & Georgia (not that I think it's much of an issue for either player).

I'm probably beating a dead horse here but 75% of the time Walters is directly competing with either Brady or Long for a place on the team and I simply think Brady & Long offer more positive attributes.

Now I don't mean to sound like I am belittling Walters workrate or defensive capabilities but I have watched Long play in midfield positions for Southampton often enough, and Brady has got plaudits for keeping Robertson out of the Hull team due to his defensive capabilities often enough, to know that it isn't good enough a reason for Walters to keep these players out of the team.

**DeLorean** · 09/03/2015, 9:38 AM

Clark wasn't playing regularly for Villa when Keogh started ahead of him. Keogh was also playing well at Derby at the time. Totally different situation now... just hope MON recognises that. I think we have to persevere with Clark full stop, even if he has a shaky outing. It pretty obvious he's got more talent than the likes of Keogh and Pearce, and possibly even Wilson at centre back. It also solves the left back conundrum, which is a massive bonus.

Walters is going to play no matter what, arguably on merit but I agree with TOWK that Long would play the wide role more effectively, if that's where Walters is going to be used.

I agree with Stutts regarding Given but totally disagree regarding Westwood. As discussed before, I think he got badly blocked off for a corner early last season which led to a goal, but that's hardly enough evidence to suggest any mental fragility. I'd prefer either of them over Forde from now on. Forde has done fine, pretty well actually at times, but I just don't think he's as good as Given or Westwood.

**zero** · 09/03/2015, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by DeLorean

I'd prefer either of them over Forde from now on. Forde has done fine, pretty well actually at times, but I just don't think he's as good as Given or Westwood.

i'd go along with this. the 'he hasn't done anything wrong' line doesn't really convince me. if (and it's looking pretty likely) millwall get relegated, do we persist with playing a league one keeper?

when he was available for transfer before signing his new contract, nobody came in for him - why was that?

the other two look more mobile and convincing to me. i would go with westwood.

**Charlie Darwin** · 09/03/2015, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by zero

i'd go along with this. the 'he hasn't done anything wrong' line doesn't really convince me.

Who said that? Forde has done very well and won us points on his own over the past two years. Not to mention he's been far more reliable in that time than Given was in his final year.

**TheOneWhoKnocks** · 09/03/2015, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by zero

i'd go along with this. the 'he hasn't done anything wrong' line doesn't really convince me. if (and it's looking pretty likely) millwall get relegated, do we persist with playing a league one keeper?

when he was available for transfer before signing his new contract, nobody came in for him - why was that?

the other two look more mobile and convincing to me. i would go with westwood.

Didn't a Bundesliga team come in for him? He alluded to several different offers, including one from a Bundesliga team, but he chose to stay at perennial relegation fodder.

If it was an Australian or American team coming in for him, he probably wouldn't have minded uprooting though.

**DeLorean** · 09/03/2015, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

Who said that?

It has been said plenty times that Forde hasn't done anything to warrant being dropped. Him winning us points on his own is only really relevant if you think he won us points that either Given or Westwood wouldn't have. Personally I feel the other two would earn us more.

**Charlie Darwin** · 09/03/2015, 1:03 PM

Originally Posted by DeLorean

It has been said plenty times that Forde hasn't done anything to warrant being dropped. Him winning us points on his own is only really relevant if you think he won us points that either Given or Westwood wouldn't have. Personally I feel the other two would earn us more.

Fair enough. I think the evidence of their most recent caps suggest it's very unlikely they would.

**zero** · 09/03/2015, 2:27 PM

Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

Didn't a Bundesliga team come in for him? He alluded to several different offers, including one from a Bundesliga team, but he chose to stay at perennial relegation fodder.

If it was an Australian or American team coming in for him, he probably wouldn't have minded uprooting though.

i am probably being a bit dismissive of those kinds of stories which typically surface when a player is after a new contract. but he does state there was an offer from the bundesliga:

http://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/socc...esliga-3622664

so fair enough.

in the end this is a matter of opinion. i think westwood / given are better players than forde. others don't. i cite respective club career/form as one reason of why i think the others are better; in my opinion there are not enough international fixtures to use those game alone (along with performance in training) to decide who plays in goal.

**tetsujin1979** · 09/03/2015, 3:03 PM

Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

Didn't a Bundesliga team come in for him? He alluded to several different offers, including one from a Bundesliga team, but he chose to stay at perennial relegation fodder.

If it was an Australian or American team coming in for him, he probably wouldn't have minded uprooting though.

Big difference in moving to Australia or the states, no language barrier for one thing. With the amount of emigrants in both countries, there's a decent chance he'd have a support network there - I've cousins and friends in the states, and mates in Australia but nobody in mainland Europe

**DannyInvincible** · 09/03/2015, 3:21 PM

Originally Posted by zero

i am probably being a bit dismissive of those kinds of stories which typically surface when a player is after a new contract. but he does state there was an offer from the bundesliga:

http://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/socc...esliga-3622664

so fair enough.

Just to nip this in the bud before you allow yourself to believe that Forde turned down an attractive Bundesliga offer because he had a cultural reluctance to move beyond the Anglosphere; like pretty much all leagues, the Bundesliga has a promotion-relegation system too, meaning there are also clubs in the Bundesliga that can suffer regular relegation. The fact is we don't know from where in Germany the offer came. Forde didn't state that there was an offer from the Bundesliga. That article's title mentions the Bundesliga, but Forde himself stated the offer came from Germany. Even if it was from the Bundesliga, he might have been offered a back-up role at a relatively minor team, for all we know. We simply don't know, so I don't think anyone is in any position to judge his turning down of such an offer when we know next to nothing about it. He even said he would have "no problem moving" to Germany.

**TheOneWhoKnocks** · 10/03/2015, 6:49 AM

Yes, zero. Forde speaks to the journalists who carried that story on a regular basis as he has regular contact with them as one of Millwall's senior players.

And the link you posted, along with several others (Irish Independent) does refer to a Bundesliga team, as you said.

Now as others say, it is hard uprooting to a foreign country but an opportunity like this doesn't come along for many footballers from these isles and should be considered more of an attraction than it is.

Stephen Hunt has spoken of his regret at turning down a move to Valenciennes after continuing to turn his wheels in England.

My opinion that a challenge in the Bundesliga is more palatable than League One football next season.

But you're capable of having your own thoughts on the issue. I am not going to tell you what to think..

**SwanVsDalton** · 10/03/2015, 9:54 AM

Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

Yes, zero. Forde speaks to the journalists who carried that story on a regular basis as he has regular contact with them as one of Millwall's senior players.

And the link you posted, along with several others (Irish Independent) does refer to a Bundesliga team, as you said.

Now as others say, it is hard uprooting to a foreign country but an opportunity like this doesn't come along for many footballers from these isles and should be considered more of an attraction than it is.

Stephen Hunt has spoken of his regret at turning down a move to Valenciennes after continuing to turn his wheels in England.

My opinion that a challenge in the Bundesliga is more palatable than League One football next season.

That doesn't take into account the family ties or club loyalty that a previously journeyman footballer feels for the team that gave him the opportunity to actually settle and fulfill his international ambitions.

Important context. Using an unsubstantial and vague German offer to Forde as a general example of Irish players lacking generally lacking ambition is really, really weak.

On Poland - I think Forde's could get dropped. Probably for Shay. Westwood might tear his hair out if that happened.

**SwanVsDalton** · 30/03/2015, 2:00 PM

Shay reckons competition for places in the Ireland setup is great - well you would say that Shay. Somebody ask David Forde and Kieron Westwood what they think.

**DannyInvincible** · 19/04/2015, 11:34 PM

'Roy Keane saved my career, says Shay Given': http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...-31154219.html

�Roy had a big role in me getting back into the Ireland squad and he probably had an influence on my return to the fold at Villa as well,� stated Given, who has won praise from new Villa boss Tim Sherwood in recent weeks.

�You�d have to ask Roy what happened, but possibly he spoke to Paul Lambert and they came up with that decision to bring me back in at Villa. I certainly think Roy was instrumental in getting me back with the Irish squad, definitely.

�It�s well-documented what happened to me at Villa. The club wanted a few players off the wage bill and I was one of them. So I was cast to one side or whatever you want to call it, Brad Guzan came in and did well. That happens in football at times.

�I was on loan at Middlesborugh last season and wanted to stay there, but then Roy came to the club and the manager took me to one side and said he wanted me to compete with Brad for a place in the team this season.

�Now it feels like I am getting even closer to playing again because the new manager because he has made it clear that everyone has a chance to play now, no matter what has gone before. It would be great to finish the season in the FA Cup final and hopefully win it. After that we will have a talk about what I do next.

�You doubt yourself when you are not in the team, of course you do, but this FA Cup run has shown, probably even to myself a little bit, that I have still got something to give. I certainly think I can still be playing by the time of the Euro 2016 finals if Ireland manage to qualify, that�s for sure.�

**TheOneWhoKnocks** · 20/04/2015, 1:43 AM

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/spor...-given-9074032

Given still "nagging" Grealish to choose Ireland.

I think Grealish has been fantastic since Sherwood gave him a chance. Stuff like Villa scoring four in a half against Sunderland having went 5 games without scoring under Lambert really shows up the folly of the Lambert reign.

**tricky_colour** · 20/04/2015, 5:48 PM

Nice to see Shay doing his bit, but at the end of the day it is Jacks decision.
I think his heart may say Ireland but his head England, usually better to go with your heart though.