I would suspect that I've seen more of him than you.Originally Posted by Slash/ED
He's far from woeful and I agree that Given is better than him but I think Wenger has put his faith in him so he may not be too quick to replace him.
When all is said and done, your opinion and mine matters little to Arsene Wenger when he sits down to pick his team.
Have Boot Disk, will travel
Despite his fantastic achievements and the exciting football they play at times, he really has had a blind spot when it comes to goalies and centre-halves. And Irish players I suspect too. Carr & Given spring to mind. Even Kiely.
For all the Vieiras and Henrys he's discovered he has a lot to answer for with Shabaan, Grimandi, Stepanovs, Cygan etc.
Almunia will come good i recokn, he just needs time.
back to Given- IMO, he's up there with the best in the world at the moment. Buffon and Casillas are the only 2 I'd rate higher than him
To be fair Martyn, when he did play for England, didn't cover himself in glory. I remember him really costing england in euro 2000, but at club level it was a different story, absolutley top keeper and still one of the better ones in the premiership.
In fairness he did have Seaman for most of his time at Arsenal and all other keepers were signed or brought through as backup (Manninger, Wright, Shabann, Almunia & Stack) and in Lehmann a keeper who played in 48 of the 49 game unbeaten run. I'm just surprised he dropped Lehmann when he did. In fairness to Shabban also he played three or four games and then broke his leg. I remember him shimmying past Sheringham on his debut and he looked the part - unfortunate timing for him i think.
The Grimster however is an Arsenal Legend! Great servant to the club and was never intended to be a world beater having been signed in his prime (28) - his two double medals were well earned. There's no excuse for Stephanovs however!
As for Carr I would have loved to get him 3 years ago but the job Lauren has done at right-back has been exceptional (considering he is a converted midfielder) and certainly wouldn't swap him now particulary with all his injury troubles over the last few years. Besides it was highly unlikely on the back of the Sol Campbell affair that Spurs would have done business with Arsenal unless the player was out of contract - I fear it will be the same with Ledley King.
Would love Given without doubt but Lehmann is the man for me, he should be re-instated in my opinion although do agree that Almunia's actual goals conceded record has been impressive enough so far and the level of critisicm has been unfair.
For what's it worth, I also think the level of critisicm for howard and carroll is a bit extreme. When you look at the stats (although you will all disagree!) at this stage last year Lehmann's record in goal was every bit as impressive as Cech's, statistically anyway! Don't get me wrong Cech is excellent but like Lehmann last year your job is made easier when you have the best defence in the league in front of you - will be interesting to see how he does if they wobble or he drops a c******! (fingers crossed on that!
edit: since when is C1anger a naughty word!
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I don't see what the fuss is about tbh. They're asking for 20m for a rank average defender? I know English players generally are woefully over priced but that takes the ****, you could buy two or three defenders of equal or greater ability for that money.
agree with the overpricing and we definetly wouldn't pay that kind of money for him and undoubtedly we would have to pay more than anyone else (with the exception of Chelsea)to get him given the history - I understand that was the case with Carr - we were quoted silly figures a few years back!
Foot.ie - NFL Fantasy Football Champion, 2006!
I have to agree with carlosirl about Cech. Sure he's a good keeper but it's too early to say whether he is the best goalkeeper in the premiership right now. Look at Lehman last year or even Howard. This time last year everyone was oohing and awwing about Howard the way they are with Cech this year but once the defense crumbles, being a great goalkeeper really tells.
You have to look at longevity and Given is up there in a group of Friedel, Niemi and Kiely who play with suspect defenses yet proved they are great goalkeepers.
"Jacques Santini...will be greeted in every dugout of the country by "one-nil, one-nil" - Clive Tyldsley, 89th minute of France-England June 13, 2004.
"Ooooohhhh Nooooooo" Bobby Robson 91st minute.
S****horpe (as in the Division Three football club) is also censored - that give you a hint?! Just got an unfortunate middle...I think on some board "snigger" comes up as "sblack person"!edit: since when is C1anger a naughty word!
Good point about Cech. However, purely based on the one time I've seen him live for Chelsea, he just looked immense. Not just his great saves but he had a real presence, something all players will say they appreciate in a 'keeper. I swa him at Chelsea vs CSKA Moscow and he and Terry were sheer class, everybody else being inferior to the Russians on the night.
The only time I've seen Almunia live was at Arsenal vs Rosenborg. Enough said! As I said above he can stop shots well as he's agile and has good reflexes but he has no presence IMO and he makes his team-mates nervous. I know all about this, trust me. I played goalie and centre-half in LSL and AUL for years. I know all bout my defenders losing faith in their goalie.
However, does anyone remember Cech's cameo at Lansdowne Raod in the 2-1 win over Czech Rep.? I think he came on at half-time and looked a bag of nerves throughout. I remember thinking "Cool, Chelsea have bought a dud here". Not one of my better calls!
I'm not sure I agree with KarlosIRL about Grimandi. I'm an Arsenal fan but Wenger's biggest weakness at Highbury has been lack of discipline. Until recently anyway. I just got sick of Grimandi's sly little elbows and stamps and general indisciplined behaviour and I was glad to see the back of him.
Yep agreed, he was a bit of a menace and likely to get sent off but in a pure footballing sence for what we paid for him - he was a great servant and value for money. You never heard a moan from him playing out of position or not playing at all, never threatened to leave - came in and did a job whenever he was asked and always gave 100%. He's a good example to kids of what being a team player is all about.
He's also a lovely guy too having met him once and also he personally replies to e-mails from his website - which in this day and age of the modern footballers is quite rare and much appreciated! Saying that he was prone to the odd argie bargie but I can live with that for the contribution he made and the collection of trophies he helped gain. He's one of those players who has a cult following, you either love him or hate him and I know plently who feel the same way you do. It's similar with Gilberto, many don't rate him, others appreciate him.
Last edited by Karlos; 25/01/2005 at 10:01 AM.
Foot.ie - NFL Fantasy Football Champion, 2006!
Think that Wenger once rated Grimandi as one of his most important signings as he played such an good role in getting the French and English players to mix better which helped team spirit.
Where am I now? I'm over here,
I've got those empty pockets and I can't afford a beer.
He's on trial with Spurs.
The Great Martin Jol must see something in him...
Have Boot Disk, will travel
He broke his leg taking a goal kick at Old Trafford. What an athlete.
He was totally brutal away to Roma. And he looked about 2 stone overweight.
The words bung and envelope spring to mind, again.
correction - he got injured against Man Utd - thigh muscle. He broke his leg in a training ground incident while he was coming back from the initial injury on christmas eve. What an athlete! the words 'get' 'facts' and 'right' spring to mind!
He conceded one goal away in Rome in a 3-1 arsenal win, hardly disasterous and didn't really have to make to many saves in that game. Arsenal strolled the second half.
Will be great to see him at Spurs - considering we put 5 past England's number 1, Rami might help us get 10!
Last edited by Karlos; 25/01/2005 at 4:25 PM.
Foot.ie - NFL Fantasy Football Champion, 2006!
correction - he got injured against Man Utd - thigh muscle. He broke his leg in a training ground incident while he was coming back from the initial injury on christmas eve. What an athlete! the words 'get' 'facts' and 'right' spring to mind!
Yeah, I remember he broke his leg in a collision with a teammate during training. Really nasty break and had to have surgery on it.
Wouldn't wish it on anyone.
Best of luck to him, wherever he goes.
Have Boot Disk, will travel
I stand corrected about the injury so!
He did look pretty hefty though, wouldn't you agree?
I thought he was at fault for Roma's goal. I've a vague recollection of a parry straight to their goal scorer. He looked unconvincing everytime I've seen him , including against Spurs, and I like to think I can spot a decent 'keeper.
PS: if either of you two Arsenal regulars can help get me a couple of tickets for Bayern I'd be really grateful.
I don't think this thread has anything to do with Shay anymore!
yeah remeber the incident at Roma your talking about - might be wrong but was that not the one when ne parried it to Totti and Cygan headed it off the goal line? I think Cassano got the goal but not 100% on that! Yeah your right, he was a hefty lad alright!
Can't help on the ticket front I'm afraid - the tickets are going on sale tomorrow for silver members and will probably be snapped up very quickly. Will be trying to get tickets myself. The problem with silver members is most won't sell on their ticket unless they know you for fear of losing the place on the silver list should their be any problems with people touting the tickets or causing trouble in the ground. There are of course touts that somehow got onto the list and they will be selling tickets. I've not bought a ticket off a tout yet at Highbury and hope i never have to but I hate saying it's probably the only way to get one these days. Hopefully Ashburton Grove will mean a lot more tickets available for these big games.
p.s. obligitory line re: Shay Given to avoid rubbish bin removal - I think Shay is great!
Foot.ie - NFL Fantasy Football Champion, 2006!
They go on sale tomorrow but members are limited to 1 ticket each.
Only one more season of reduced capacity to contend with though.
*Edit* I think Shay is great too.
Have Boot Disk, will travel
I bought one for face value for the FA Cup match vs Blackburn a few years ago. I got busted by the cops on CCTV ! It's an offence to buy a ticket from a tout here.
I think Shay's got funny sideburns.
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